why all this hate against Incels ? (girls, misogynistic, men, dating)
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but you are assuming that women w/o partners will find all men who are incel not desirable
that is BIG assumption
Good looking is different than desirable. There are bitter men who post on CD all the time, and they say "Oh, I never say these things out loud," but that bad attitude seeps through and is very undesirable, even if a guy is generically physically attractive.
I do think that there is an element of social proof to it. My sister is a very attractive woman. We don't look much alike at all. (Cue Rodney Dangerfield: "...Clearly!") I've noticed that when we're out and about doing things together, I get a different sort of glance from people, women especially. I think there's a calculation taking place..."Is she with him? What does she see in him? What am I not seeing in him?" Of course that's all speculation, but the looks I get are different than the looks I get when I'm by myself or with friends.
To bake it into a tidy tautology: women want guys women want. Again, there is a social stigma to being a perpetually single man.
I agree but men are the same way don't you think
what is the society standard for beauty is what most men desire, skinny tanned blonde etc they dont want to be seen with a pale chubby girl even though they might find her attractive
I feel perpetually single men are seen as a threat by many married women, ready to corrupt the minds of their husbands !
Good looking is different than desirable. There are bitter men who post on CD all the time, and they say "Oh, I never say these things out loud," but that bad attitude seeps through and is very undesirable, even if a guy is generically physically attractive.
true women and men are wired differently in some way
not all of them are equally angry or dangerous either
our opinions are too heavily skewed by few incidents
a lot of religious muslims hate the west [ for their alleged "crimes" , support of israel or colonialism etc].If you go to muslim gatherings bashing the west is pretty common and generally accepted behavior
but a very very small minority of these become terrorists or would even support them.
So you cannot say all religious muslims are terrorists or should be treated as such [like being under a microscope/radar] even though a lot of them have anger and hatred against the west.
OK. Then I'll say this; It's the scary angry ones that get the hate. Fair enough? It's the ones, here in this very forum (and I'm not implying you) with the hardly concealed venom. Is that fair enough?
I will wager you did not even read 90% of what I posted. I know this because one of the links in one of my posts was a position statement with an executive summary that was 10 pages alone, with plenty of citations. You physically have not spent the time it would take to read even that much, judging by the timing of your posts.
As for the articles, they went into depth, several with interviews with experts, and a few had links to examples of the misogynistic rhetoric spewed by those who self-identify as "incel."
None are so blind as those who will not see. And you know what? I'm not going to entertain your attempts to argue about things you have not even read. The material is there, and here is some more.
The current study employed an inductive qualitative analysis of over 8,000 posts made in two online incel communities to identify the norms, values, and beliefs of these groups from a subcultural perspective. Analyses found that the incel community was structured around five interrelated normative orders: the sexual market, women as naturally evil, legitimizing masculinity, male oppression, and violence. The implications of this analysis for our understanding of extremism and the role of the internet in radicalization to violence are considered in depth.
Central to the guiding incel ideology and master narrative are violent misogynistic beliefs and an attitude of entitlement, based on male gender and social positioning, with respect to obtaining desired and often illusory sexual experiences. While violence and hate speech within the incel community are both common, there exists a notable subset of incels who have been willing to act on those violent beliefs through the commission of acts of multiple murder.
The bottom line is that you are unknowledgeable about incel culture. That you refuse to take the time to learn says a lot about you.
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
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Originally Posted by Seija
More defensiveness. Good idea for you to rest your case as you were the one who decided to start talking about "angry gender feminists" and "victimhood," not me. Cut your losses and move on.
Dunno, and I'm not the one trying to turn one man's OP into 'proof' of Toxic Masculinity (BTW, is there ever a 'Toxic Femininity'... lol)? But in any case, no worries, and nice to meet you too!
OK. Then I'll say this; It's the scary angry ones that get the hate. Fair enough? It's the ones, here in this very forum (and I'm not implying you) with the hardly concealed venom. Is that fair enough?
It is useless to try to separate "incel" from "misogynistic incel" at this late date. The very meaning of the term "involuntarily celibate" implies that sex is an entitlement and that they are being oppressed into going without by someone else, as though someone else has taken their rights away. Well, celibacy is not a form of oppression because sex is not a human right.
How ridiculous would it be for someone to say "infat" for "involuntarily fat" when someone wants to be thinner. I guess I am "inmiddleclass" because I as much as I would like to be a millionaire, I am not.
again you cannot take actions of one and generalize
obviously there is a HUGE spectrum
Yes, there's a spectrum. And incels such as Elliot Rodger are at the far end of the spectrum.
However, his actions were on a spectrum of hatred towards the women who wouldn't simply 'give' him sex, and the men who got it from them. There are still plenty of men* (since incels are MOSTLY men...) who identify as incels who spew the same hatred on those message boards.
The point being, that one doesn't have to be an Elliot Rodger to feel the same desire for sex, and the same hatred against those who aren't giving it to them.
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Originally Posted by Dad01
not proposing ANYONE have sex against their will
ideally prostitution should be legalized [but again that does not help those who cannot afford it]
so bringing together sexless people from both sides might be the next best thing.And that is all I'm proposing.
Prostitution IS legalized in many parts of the world. But here's the thing: Why do these men "need" a woman to satisfy their physical urges? Why can't they simply "take matters into their own hands", so to speak?
Let's also understand that it seems that MOST women who are "sexless" aren't involuntarily sexless.
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Originally Posted by At Arms Length
Wait, you seriously doubt that the desire for sex is rooted in basic biology? Seriously? The drive to procreate is universal among all living species...except humans? That seems like a very anti-science view of it. Of course there's room for variation on an individual level, but MOST living beings on this planet, from paramecia to people, feel an impulse to further their genetic legacy.
Sex (for human's) isn't a simple "biological function". There are other factors at play, such as the psychology behind it. Plus, there are a number of social scientists who don't agree that it's merely an "impulse to further their genetic legacy".
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Or perhaps those people have experienced validation and know that they are desirable because other people have desired them.
Or, perhaps those people ignore that others may have desired them (not even realizing that they've been 'desired' by others), and find validation through their own selves and their own experiences.
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Once again, do you have any idea what it's like to go 20+ years desiring human affection without receiving it? I ask that question a goodly amount, but no one ever seems to care to answer it.
Big difference between "affection" and sex.
Of course, different cultures don't have an issue with men greeting each other (for example) with a hug, or even a kiss or both. And no, those men aren't homosexuals.
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Plenty of negative terms have been reclaimed. I don't see why this one can't. I'm the much-maligned "Not All."
If you feel that strongly about it, start a movement.
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Originally Posted by RamenAddict
Not every woman without a partner WANTS a partner for casual sex. That is what you are missing. Some women without partners simply do not want a partner AT ALL.
Go outside, find the most unattractive women you can.
Approach them and create some small talk.
Ask for their number and set up a date.
Do the same for online dating.
After a few dates, invite them to your house.
Cook / Order food. Watch netflix (preferably something scary)
Put your arm around them.
Tease them a bit.
Give them some compliments.
If she seems to be into it, go in for the kiss.
If she reciprocates the kiss, escalate unless she tells you no or to stop.
Thank me later.
These seems like generic advice for getting laid, which isn't what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a relationship and all of the trappings, and that means finding someone I'm interested in and who is interested in me. With one recent exception, I don't cold approach, and I don't ask women out until I know enough about them to think we would have decent chemistry and commonality.
That said, I think that most people are attractive in at least some ways. I have asked out women who probably wouldn't rate very high in terms of attractiveness for most guys. (In fact, I've had my taste in women criticized before..."Dude, she looks like a trannie!") But I'm not like Boomhauer (in this regard, anyways), I don't go around carpet-bombing requests for digits. (Contrary to what some people on here would tell you about me.)
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