Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I won't speak for Vicki and other folks leverage on real estate's success in the coming months and years, but realtors will be eerily silent when it comes to government bailouts. While their inner self agrees that the market should dictate house prices, their bottom line is directly affected by a reversal of the market. So, artificially pumping up prices through government intervention and keeping people in homes when the market dictates they should default helps keep the party going a little while longer. Everyone is looking out for themselves to some degree.
Homeowners like myself are already subsidized by the taxpayer through IRS income tax mortgage interest deductions, as well as lower property tax bills mainly thanks to the personal property, state income tax, and high petrol tax, which every taxpayer pays without regard to residence classification. Renters subsidize homeowners in NC much more than many states. A counterexample is PA, where there is a flat 3 or so tax and no personal property tax. So, a renter owning a car does not help foot a homeowner's bill simply because of the choice they've made. Now there's a real possibility for further subsidization courtesy of people who have been saving and waiting for a good time to buy. I rarely hear a realtor or someone directly associated with the industry speak out vehemently against such an action.
The only hope for taxpayers is the simple fact that the majority of the voting public who are registered to vote and either live with family or are renters. It is only a matter of whether they'll pay attention.
I would have never moved, but we could not get ahead up there. We actually are able to save and invest about 15% of our income down here.
And *that* is precisely why we want out of MA and why NC is tops on our list of "go-to" places. There are other very affordable places in the country but none in which we'd want to live (Arkansas, Louisiana, etc.).
Unfortunately, with my son a junior in HS and no jobs appearing on the horizon (my last lead turned into a job offer, but in the NYC office instead of the Durham office), I think we'll need to stay until he graduates. And since we had to sell our home and now live in a rental, where the lease expires in June, we're in a quandary. I don't want to buy into this market again---we have no desire to make it a long-term commitment and we'd only lose money in this market. But I have no desire to renew this lease for another year. I have too many complaints about it! It was supposed to be a short-term fix (6 mos, maybe), not a 2 year commitment.
Would I be crazy to make my son move before his senior year of high school? I think that would earn me a permanent spot on the "Mommie Dearest" list--I just can't bring myself to think about it. But in the meantime, the rest of us are going to suffer.
I'm trying to convince my husband that maybe we should have one parent move (assuming one of us can score a job) with the younger two kids and the other parent stay behind, renting a small 1-2 bed condo with the older one until he finishes High School.
He's not buying that idea at all. Am I nuts?
I need a job in NC. Or he needs a job. In NC!
Though we haven't ruled out going "home" to Portland or Seattle, either.
I won't speak for Vicki and other folks leverage on real estate's success in the coming months and years, but realtors will be eerily silent when it comes to government bailouts. While their inner self agrees that the market should dictate house prices, their bottom line is directly affected by a reversal of the market. So, artificially pumping up prices through government intervention and keeping people in homes when the market dictates they should default helps keep the party going a little while longer. Everyone is looking out for themselves to some degree.
Homeowners like myself are already subsidized by the taxpayer through IRS income tax mortgage interest deductions, as well as lower property tax bills mainly thanks to the personal property, state income tax, and high petrol tax, which every taxpayer pays without regard to residence classification. Renters subsidize homeowners in NC much more than many states. A counterexample is PA, where there is a flat 3 or so tax and no personal property tax. So, a renter owning a car does not help foot a homeowner's bill simply because of the choice they've made. Now there's a real possibility for further subsidization courtesy of people who have been saving and waiting for a good time to buy. I rarely hear a realtor or someone directly associated with the industry speak out vehemently against such an action.
The only hope for taxpayers is the simple fact that the majority of the voting public who are registered to vote and either live with family or are renters. It is only a matter of whether they'll pay attention.
I am "eerily silent" on alot of government issues. For those of you that know me...its rare that anyone complains that I'm "silent" about anything!
I am just a Realtor. What do I know about government? I vote. Some issues I'm for and some I'm against. However, complaining and whining are just not my thing. I truly believe that things will work out as they are suppossed to. Yep, sounds cheesy but I've seen it happen in life so many times.
I WAS around for the gas lines (I"m sure I was about 2 but stop doing the math!). We did what we had to do. I sent hubby to wait in line! Did I whine and complain? Sure. Did it do any good? Well it must have because we don't wait in line for gas now!
If I WANT to get upset...I have teenagers for that!
My "job" is to assist people in either finding a house they want to buy or selling a house they want to sell. I try not to give them too much financial advice, unless they ask. I disclose that I'm not a lawyer, financial adviser, lender, attorney, marriage counselor or psychiatrist! I have been known to threaten to "pull over"!
Whether or not my business slows down in the next few months will be a wait and see. Am I in a panic? No way. Did I sell houses when the interest rate was 12% to 14%? Yep. Have I been selling houses in the last few months? You betcha!
So no matter whose opinion is expressed on this Forum, we'll either agree or disagree!
I see your "anecdotal" and raise with a "presumptuous".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frudy McRomson
Your evidence is anecdotal and likely not indicative of the statistics in the area. The News & Observer is quick to point out that the upper end homes are by far the slowest selling ones right now.
Many people who keep up with the Joneses are in debt to their eyeballs. That includes McMansion owners. The statistics are there already, plain as day. Home sales above the 450K region are way down in the triangle region. Even with 20% down, now more of a requirement, a 700K house requires 140K down and 3x income maximum, although some (desperate) brokers/lenders will claim they can still find zero down loans. Jumbo loans are not FHA insured and the ceiling likely won't be raised above the 417K range anytime soon, and command an interest rate of 7.5% or higher in many cases. That is why a less expensive house will be a better investment, relatively speaking. Keep in mind also the costs of heating/cooling a larger home and paying taxes on such a residence. That eats away at the "investment".
Also, many people will certainly inflate their financial status to their friends, even close ones. Part of "keeping up with the Joneses". I've also seen some of these folks (neighbors of mine) in their everyday lives. I've even seen one couple constantly fight just before filing for divorce and abandon their home immediately afterwards, leaving their two cats with no one to take care of . All the while before, they talked up their wealth to many of us at the HOA events.
OK, you busted me, I made a casual comment without substantive or corroborative evidence. I didn't realize I needed to as my point was more about real estate properties retaining their value regardless of the size or price.
Personally I think buying big is foolish. For those friends who have kickin' big houses with a flat-panel television in every room I'm always at a loss to figure out why they want/need such a spread. And there is absolutely no doubt that the high-end housing market has stalled or that large mortgages are silly for anyone living in North Carolina.
And at the risk of having you turn the fire hose on me again I don't see in any of your rhetoric supporting evidence backing up your claim that " a less expensive house will be a better investment, relatively speaking". You're formula is predicated on the logic that people buying bigger houses need to borrow more but isn't that presumptuous?
Whoa! Keeping up with the joneses mentality is not confined to the "mcmansion" crowd. Look again....its not predominantly the "mcmansion" homeowners that are having the foreclosure issues right now. There seems to be far more of the less expensive homes in this category. Just because someone purchased a home priced under $200,000 does not translate to "that person bought within their means". According to a BOA survey published this month, it is the first time buyer market that is hit the hardest by the credit crunch.
The Triangle area is home to many high income families. The fact they want larger homes does not automatically mean they are trying to keep up with the joneses. Many purchasers of higher end homes are financially solvent and have large downpayments to start with. They are far less impacted by interest rates than the first time buyer.
Whoa! Keeping up with the joneses mentality is not confined to the "mcmansion" crowd. Look again....its not predominantly the "mcmansion" homeowners that are having the foreclosure issues right now. There seems to be far more of the less expensive homes in this category. Just because someone purchased a home priced under $200,000 does not translate to "that person bought within their means". According to a BOA survey published this month, it is the first time buyer market that is hit the hardest by the credit crunch.
The Triangle area is home to many high income families. The fact they want larger homes does not automatically mean they are trying to keep up with the joneses. Many purchasers of higher end homes are financially solvent and have large downpayments to start with. They are far less impacted by interest rates than the first time buyer.
You wanna bet? The average american homeowner is living with 25K in credit card debt! Yes over 60% of american families that carry CC debt have that much in monthly revolving debt! They pay with a CC gasoline which is now spiking and then turning around in 6 months with even bigger balances. Its getting ugly out there. I will say this again, IF you can afford a 750K house great that means you are earning upwards of 175K a year. How many families are making that here in the triangle? Not that many. A 750 price of a house add 20% down gives you a 600K mortgage. At 6% that is 3600 a month add an additional 9000 a year in property taxes on the house here in the wake county area you would be spending near 50K a year to live in the house, P&I and taxes. Woof Woof Woof!
You wanna bet? The average american homeowner is living with 25K in credit card debt! Yes over 60% of american families that carry CC debt have that much in monthly revolving debt! They pay with a CC gasoline which is now spiking and then turning around in 6 months with even bigger balances. Its getting ugly out there. I will say this again, IF you can afford a 750K house great that means you are earning upwards of 175K a year. How many families are making that here in the triangle? Not that many. A 750 price of a house add 20% down gives you a 600K mortgage. At 6% that is 3600 a month add an additional 9000 a year in property taxes on the house here in the wake county area you would be spending near 50K a year to live in the house, P&I and taxes. Woof Woof Woof!
Gosh, when I try to rationalize it like this, people personally attack me for trying to warn people to get out of debt and limit exposure to real estate. Rather than address me directly, then talk "behind my back" to others in this forum referring to me as commonly misinformed.
I wanted to say something similar to what you wrote, that we aren't Philly, NYC, or Boston having scores of doctors and lawyers on every street corner. Mostly tech and research positions (nothing wrong with these: I'm in the research side myself) which command a lower salary on average. Dual income is mandatory and even then some live on the edge. Up until 6 months ago, my saying was that "our cute fuzzy cat could get a jumbo mortgage". Sadly, it wasn't too far from the truth.
I still have to give props to the poster who attributed my brand of rational thought with the result of not having a spouse or children. Very clever!
Gosh, when I try to rationalize it like this, people personally attack me for trying to warn people to get out of debt and limit exposure to real estate. Rather than address me directly, then talk "behind my back" to others in this forum referring to me as commonly misinformed.
I wanted to say something similar to what you wrote, that we aren't Philly, NYC, or Boston having scores of doctors and lawyers on every street corner. Mostly tech and research positions (nothing wrong with these: I'm in the research side myself) which command a lower salary on average. Dual income is mandatory and even then some live on the edge. Up until 6 months ago, my saying was that "our cute fuzzy cat could get a jumbo mortgage". Sadly, it wasn't too far from the truth.
I still have to give props to the poster who attributed my brand of rational thought with the result of not having a spouse or children. Very clever!
Whoa, Wait I am on your page, no disrespect!! But then again those realtors who love to put that wonderful spin on a pig!!
Whoa, Wait I am on your page, no disrespect!! But then again those realtors who love to put that wonderful spin on a pig!!
Agreed. I was speaking about "others". I don't expect anyone to believe it's exactly as bad as I assert, just that I feel chastised for not being a cheerleader and having a different viewpoint. That's ok though. I still sleep well at night.
Gosh, when I try to rationalize it like this, people personally attack me for trying to warn people to get out of debt and limit exposure to real estate. Rather than address me directly, then talk "behind my back" to others in this forum referring to me as commonly misinformed.
I wanted to say something similar to what you wrote, that we aren't Philly, NYC, or Boston having scores of doctors and lawyers on every street corner. Mostly tech and research positions (nothing wrong with these: I'm in the research side myself) which command a lower salary on average. Dual income is mandatory and even then some live on the edge. Up until 6 months ago, my saying was that "our cute fuzzy cat could get a jumbo mortgage". Sadly, it wasn't too far from the truth.
I still have to give props to the poster who attributed my brand of rational thought with the result of not having a spouse or children. Very clever!
For someone in research you use a lot of anecdotal evidence and rarely back up your rhetoric with data. Again affordability is causing these bubbles to burst (e.g., Tampa) and there's not much of an affordability problem in this area. Whether it's because people had equity from homes they sold so they have a nice down payment or because there actually are a lot of people in this area who earn a decent living (e.g., median income in Cary is close to 100k) I see plenty people living comfortably and on one income. When you make a statement like "dual income is mandatory" it really does little for your credibility. Maybe you should expand your social circle because I personally know many one income families living well within their means and in houses that cost over $250k (I believe that is the price above which you've stated people should not spend).
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I see your "anecdotal" and raise with a "presumptuous".
But then again those realtors who love to put that wonderful spin on a pig!!
