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You wanna bet? The average american homeowner is living with 25K in credit card debt! Yes over 60% of american families that carry CC debt have that much in monthly revolving debt! They pay with a CC gasoline which is now spiking and then turning around in 6 months with even bigger balances. Its getting ugly out there. I will say this again, IF you can afford a 750K house great that means you are earning upwards of 175K a year. How many families are making that here in the triangle? Not that many. A 750 price of a house add 20% down gives you a 600K mortgage. At 6% that is 3600 a month add an additional 9000 a year in property taxes on the house here in the wake county area you would be spending near 50K a year to live in the house, P&I and taxes. Woof Woof Woof!
Taxes on a house in that price range in Wake County are currently closer to $6000 because very few homes (including new homes) are assessed at 100%. What happens after the new assessments come out I don't know. $42000/yr. for interest and taxes is also deductible at the state and federal level so you're really only talking about $28k (assuming a 33 percent state and federal deduction) + insurance (no principal included). And what does Woof Woof Woof mean?
You wanna bet? The average american homeowner is living with 25K in credit card debt!
And how many of those live in Wake County? I'm one of the many people who relocated from a ridiculously expensive area to Raleigh and in the process shed all my non-secured debt..... all of it. Do I know for certain everyone else is in the same boat, no. But if I were a gambling man I'd bet I'm part of the majoriy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frudy McRomson
Gosh, when I try to rationalize it like this, people personally attack me for trying to warn people to get out of debt and limit exposure to real estate. Rather than address me directly, then talk "behind my back" to others in this forum referring to me as commonly misinformed.
I did challenge your post directly, you neglected to reply. And believe me, Urbywan is not someone who gets away with an endless stream of negative, sky-is-falling logic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VickiR
Urbywan and Frudy, you have given so much credence to the clique that "misery loves company"!!!
Vicki
For someone in research you use a lot of anecdotal evidence and rarely back up your rhetoric with data. Again affordability is causing these bubbles to burst (e.g., Tampa) and there's not much of an affordability problem in this area. Whether it's because people had equity from homes they sold so they have a nice down payment or because there actually are a lot of people in this area who earn a decent living (e.g., median income in Cary is close to 100k) I see plenty people living comfortably and on one income. When you make a statement like "dual income is mandatory" it really does little for your credibility. Maybe you should expand your social circle because I personally know many one income families living well within their means and in houses that cost over $250k (I believe that is the price above which you've stated people should not spend).
So, there are tons of people making over $175K/year in this area? While there are a few very high paying positions that achieve this minimum level of income required for a $750K house under newer mortgage guidelines, the median income in Raleigh being less than one third this value can help one infer that a dual income is indeed mandatory.
Expanding my social circle is irrelevant to this topic, because it will just present more anecdotal evidence, the very kind that one would make my point more meaningless.
As per wikipedia:
"According to a 2006 estimate, the median income for a household in the town was $80,986, and the median income for a family was $96,602.[7] Males had a median income of $62,012 versus $38,819 for females. The per capita income for the town was $32,974. About 2.1% of families and 3.4% of the population were below the poverty line, including 2.8% of those under age 18 and 3.5% of those age 65 or over."
81K is not nearly 100K. You're speaking of 96K as it pertains to a family. Males earn 62K/year, far below the 100K you suggest. Last I heard, single females bought homes in Cary as well with their relatively lower income (the gap is shocking, but nevertheless the numbers are there). Cary homes have a median price of $391,000 according to Yahoo real estate. It's unknown as to the mortgage size, but considering that Raleigh has a 10% subprime rate for recent mortgages, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to hear that many did no docs, teaser ARMs, or zero down and as such their income is way too low for the mortgage price, perhaps 4x-5x income.
I thank you for poking me about getting data to back up an assertion. I think it's pretty evident, however, that dual income families are becoming more of a trend than in the past to maintain a certain level of lifestyle.
Among our alternative social circle (not our good friends but friends nonetheless), there are overextended families "owning" expensive houses on a relatively low income.
Vicky , I still love your style, BUT you have to agree things are looking well a bit unsettling nationwide economically.
That said, Look at the public schools and the salary guides, look at what nurses are making, look what sales people are making, its not so grand around here salary wise. yes two income families are the norm, a shame at that.
On that tax issue, an 800K home in cary will have a tax bill near 8500 dollars a year.
I have a friend who bought one of those expensive places and yes is in hock up to his eyeballs, and just had to buy that house even though he cashed out of NY last year. was able to put 305K down on a house that came in at 698K still has a mortgage near 400K. He will have to work forever with two kids under the age of 6. He is 49YO. I retired at 49!
Vicky , I still love your style, BUT you have to agree things are looking well a bit unsettling nationwide economically.
That said, Look at the public schools and the salary guides, look at what nurses are making, look what sales people are making, its not so grand around here salary wise. yes two income families are the norm, a shame at that.
On that tax issue, an 800K home in cary will have a tax bill near 8500 dollars a year.
I have a friend who bought one of those expensive places and yes is in hock up to his eyeballs, and just had to buy that house even though he cashed out of NY last year. was able to put 305K down on a house that came in at 698K still has a mortgage near 400K. He will have to work forever with two kids under the age of 6. He is 49YO. I retired at 49!
Sorry, but you're wrong about the tax issue (at least until the reassessments come out). The two most expensive homes in my neighborhood (which were purchased last year in the mid $700s are assessed in the mid $500s and have tax bills of $6k. Homes in Wake are not currently assessed at market value. Also, you were talking about a $750k home, so why did you change to $800k?
So, there are tons of people making over $175K/year in this area? While there are a few very high paying positions that achieve this minimum level of income required for a $750K house under newer mortgage guidelines, the median income in Raleigh being less than one third this value can help one infer that a dual income is indeed mandatory.
Expanding my social circle is irrelevant to this topic, because it will just present more anecdotal evidence, the very kind that one would make my point more meaningless.
As per wikipedia:
"According to a 2006 estimate, the median income for a household in the town was $80,986, and the median income for a family was $96,602.[7] Males had a median income of $62,012 versus $38,819 for females. The per capita income for the town was $32,974. About 2.1% of families and 3.4% of the population were below the poverty line, including 2.8% of those under age 18 and 3.5% of those age 65 or over."
81K is not nearly 100K. You're speaking of 96K as it pertains to a family. Males earn 62K/year, far below the 100K you suggest. Last I heard, single females bought homes in Cary as well with their relatively lower income (the gap is shocking, but nevertheless the numbers are there). Cary homes have a median price of $391,000 according to Yahoo real estate. It's unknown as to the mortgage size, but considering that Raleigh has a 10% subprime rate for recent mortgages, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to hear that many did no docs, teaser ARMs, or zero down and as such their income is way too low for the mortgage price, perhaps 4x-5x income.
I thank you for poking me about getting data to back up an assertion. I think it's pretty evident, however, that dual income families are becoming more of a trend than in the past to maintain a certain level of lifestyle.
Among our alternative social circle (not our good friends but friends nonetheless), there are overextended families "owning" expensive houses on a relatively low income.
Frudy,
I believe the yahoo figure is for homes on the market (if you look on realtor.com the median for homes on the market seems to be right around $375k) which is biased because there's a lot of new construction on the market and that's at the higher end of the spectrum. According to zillow the median home price in Cary is under $300k.
Frudy,
I believe the yahoo figure is for homes on the market (if you look on realtor.com the median for homes on the market seems to be right around $375k) which is biased because there's a lot of new construction on the market and that's at the higher end of the spectrum. According to zillow the median home price in Cary is under $300k.
But Zillow, at least I hear, is wrong wrong wrong.
Seriously though, thanks for pointing out the information. In that case, for *families*, the cost is relatively in line with house prices. For single males and females, not so much as many are likely first time homebuyers and haven't cashed out.
So, there are tons of people making over $175K/year in this area? While there are a few very high paying positions that achieve this minimum level of income required for a $750K house under newer mortgage guidelines, the median income in Raleigh being less than one third this value can help one infer that a dual income is indeed mandatory.
Expanding my social circle is irrelevant to this topic, because it will just present more anecdotal evidence, the very kind that one would make my point more meaningless.
As per wikipedia:
"According to a 2006 estimate, the median income for a household in the town was $80,986, and the median income for a family was $96,602.[7] Males had a median income of $62,012 versus $38,819 for females. The per capita income for the town was $32,974. About 2.1% of families and 3.4% of the population were below the poverty line, including 2.8% of those under age 18 and 3.5% of those age 65 or over."
81K is not nearly 100K. You're speaking of 96K as it pertains to a family. Males earn 62K/year, far below the 100K you suggest. Last I heard, single females bought homes in Cary as well with their relatively lower income (the gap is shocking, but nevertheless the numbers are there). Cary homes have a median price of $391,000 according to Yahoo real estate. It's unknown as to the mortgage size, but considering that Raleigh has a 10% subprime rate for recent mortgages, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to hear that many did no docs, teaser ARMs, or zero down and as such their income is way too low for the mortgage price, perhaps 4x-5x income.
I thank you for poking me about getting data to back up an assertion. I think it's pretty evident, however, that dual income families are becoming more of a trend than in the past to maintain a certain level of lifestyle.
Among our alternative social circle (not our good friends but friends nonetheless), there are overextended families "owning" expensive houses on a relatively low income.
Frudy,
We're only talking about 6% of the listings on realtor.com in Cary at $750k or above. It's definitely possible that 6% of Cary has the kind of income to support that mortgage with one income. It's not like everyone's buying a $750k house. Some people are. Most can afford them. Just like at every price range some people are over their head. I think it makes some people feel good to think most other people are irresponsible.
Sorry, but you're wrong about the tax issue (at least until the reassessments come out). The two most expensive homes in my neighborhood (which were purchased last year in the mid $700s are assessed in the mid $500s and have tax bills of $6k. Homes in Wake are not currently assessed at market value. Also, you were talking about a $750k home, so why did you change to $800k?
Huh?
My 330K home is taxed here in Fuquay at 1.14 per 100 and at 300K tax is 3500 this year. Believe me the homes that are closing at 700 to 800 are taxed near 8K a year.
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