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The days of a "lifetime" job are gone for most people though. They often buy a house based on a commute to where they are working at the time of purchase, only to be laid off or shifted to another area or company for some other reason, resulting in a longer commute.
For that reason I'm not sure the blame for this congestion should be shifted to the homeowner / worker. Businesses have much more control over where they put their office locations than a homeowner does about where they work. The fact that so many of them choose to cluster in or near RTP proper means that sooner or later the supply of land for nearby housing will be close to zero. I'm sure that business growth in that area will not stop until traffic around Morrisville, West Cary, etc. gets to the point that it takes an hour to travel 3 miles.
My point is that a lot of people move to Knightdale, or Clayton, Wake Forest, Fuquay etc. because they can afford it.
I personally would like to see these businesses spread out a bit more, work on traffic-relieving strategies like flexible start-end times, coordinated work-from home days, etc.
I will agree, though that a toll solution might be necessary. At least optional toll lanes.
Live in Clayton, work in downtown Durham, so I think I qualify to speak on this.
Straight out of college I took a job in Durham, my wife took a job in Durham. We looked at living in Raleigh and both commuting, but it made the least financial/time sense. We settled on Clayton due to less crime and better schools for when we have kids. I decided I would put in ~2 years of the commute to gain good experience and recommendations to take a closer job. It was worth it and now I have a good job in Garner.
That being said... there are still some affordable places in Durham and Raleigh. But you sacrifice on education and in some places on crime. I am all for living close to where you work if at all possible.
But what does that say about why things are the way they are?
First, shopping center and business lots have spread out
We build shopping centers on the edge of town (e.g. White Oak) and then use up most of the space for parking spots instead of having parking decks or park and ride. People then complain when there is not enough parking, and are not willing to walk or take a shuttle. On a micro scale we now have, for the past 15 years, drug stores being detached from shopping centers, with their own parking spaces, etc. The end result is more convenient parking, and less walking, but at the expense of businesses being further apart from one another creating a greater expanse of sprawl and more driving.
Second, we build housing first, then expand transportation Twenty years ago it only took 20 minutes to get from Clayton to Fuquay. Some days it now takes close to an hour. Housing development after housing development was added to this area "Willow Springs/Cleveland/"Garner" with no expansion of NC 42. This happens all over the triangle.
Expanding infrastructure can be expensive, not just to build, but also to maintain. People want low taxes. If you want low taxes you can either oppose future development or promote concentrated development. Unfortunately, most people who want low taxes, seem to be against concentrated development, because it seems to be the same people who don't want to walk anywhere, who don't want to expand public transportation, and don't want to have to drive further into the city.
Many businesses and developments go outside the city limits to save on tax dollars. Look at 40/42. That is not a city, therefore there are much less strict zoning laws, and cheaper taxes, but now you have like 6 layers of ad hoc businesses, insane traffic in an area that is technically out in the country, and miles of parking lots that most of which goes unused. I get that and I'm not anti business. A CVS that has its own parking lot is proven to make more money (learned this from an appraiser) than a CVS attached to a Grocery store or Wal Mart shopping Center. But at what expense? That 1 store probably doesn't matter, but when you have every single business doing this then it creates the problem that you have now.
We have to prioritize the future over what seems easiest and makes sense for right now. It all begins at the local level and we all need to make some sacrifices. County commissioners and city councils need to encourage smart growth and not allow random construction wherever. The issue, of course, is that if one city or county becomes more strict, many businesses can go elsewhere. So, the cities and counties in the triangle need to work together. Our society has long ceased from being isolated towns to essentially operating at a metro level.
First, shopping center and business lots have spread out
We build shopping centers on the edge of town (e.g. White Oak) and then use up most of the space for parking spots instead of having parking decks or park and ride. People then complain when there is not enough parking, and are not willing to walk or take a shuttle. On a micro scale we now have, for the past 15 years, drug stores being detached from shopping centers, with their own parking spaces, etc. The end result is more convenient parking, and less walking, but at the expense of businesses being further apart from one another creating a greater expanse of sprawl and more driving.
Second, we build housing first, then expand transportation Twenty years ago it only took 20 minutes to get from Clayton to Fuquay. Some days it now takes close to an hour. Housing development after housing development was added to this area "Willow Springs/Cleveland/"Garner" with no expansion of NC 42. This happens all over the triangle.
Expanding infrastructure can be expensive, not just to build, but also to maintain. People want low taxes. If you want low taxes you can either oppose future development or promote concentrated development. Unfortunately, most people who want low taxes, seem to be against concentrated development, because it seems to be the same people who don't want to walk anywhere, who don't want to expand public transportation, and don't want to have to drive further into the city.
Many businesses and developments go outside the city limits to save on tax dollars. Look at 40/42. That is not a city, therefore there are much less strict zoning laws, and cheaper taxes, but now you have like 6 layers of ad hoc businesses, insane traffic in an area that is technically out in the country, and miles of parking lots that most of which goes unused. I get that and I'm not anti business. A CVS that has its own parking lot is proven to make more money (learned this from an appraiser) than a CVS attached to a Grocery store or Wal Mart shopping Center. But at what expense? That 1 store probably doesn't matter, but when you have every single business doing this then it creates the problem that you have now.
We have to prioritize the future over what seems easiest and makes sense for right now. It all begins at the local level and we all need to make some sacrifices. County commissioners and city councils need to encourage smart growth and not allow random construction wherever. The issue, of course, is that if one city or county becomes more strict, many businesses can go elsewhere. So, the cities and counties in the triangle need to work together. Our society has long ceased from being isolated towns to essentially operating at a metro level.
Agreed - everything in this area is centered around driving from store to store instead of parking somewhere and be able to walk to multiple stores. I was in Holly Springs a few weeks ago - I went to eat, and then went to Target and a few other places but had to drive to each store instead of being able to park in one space and walk to different stores.
Agreed about taxes and transportation - people forget about the maintenance part of transportation infrastructure. There's a lot more that can be done to control the growth in the area and to expand public transportation.
Agreed - everything in this area is centered around driving from store to store instead of parking somewhere and be able to walk to multiple stores. I was in Holly Springs a few weeks ago - I went to eat, and then went to Target and a few other places but had to drive to each store instead of being able to park in one space and walk to different stores.
Agreed about taxes and transportation - people forget about the maintenance part of transportation infrastructure. There's a lot more that can be done to control the growth in the area and to expand public transportation.
Well, we use to have shopping centers where you could presumably park in one spot and walk to the stores. Then we went to indoor malls where you parked in one spot and definitely walked to all the stores, but they became uncool, so we created faux-city center shopping areas.
I suppose North Hills is well set-up for walking from store to store, but I don't know a lot of people who would walk from one end of Brier Creek (Dick's) to the other (BJ's.) I think people tend to be in too much of a hurry and are too lazy to walk.
We created the indoor mall so we wouldn't have to walk in the blazing sun or blowing snow, but we seem to have come right back around where we were. lol.
Well, we use to have shopping centers where you could presumably park in one spot and walk to the stores. Then we went to indoor malls where you parked in one spot and definitely walked to all the stores, but they became uncool, so we created faux-city center shopping areas.
I suppose North Hills is well set-up for walking from store to store, but I don't know a lot of people who would walk from one end of Brier Creek (Dick's) to the other (BJ's.) I think people tend to be in too much of a hurry and are too lazy to walk.
We created the indoor mall so we wouldn't have to walk in the blazing sun or blowing snow, but we seem to have come right back around where we were. lol.
I think the big box stores in this country have really changed things. The size of a Walmart or Target or Dick's and the accompanying giant parking lot just really spreads things out to a point where it's a monumental challenge to walk anywhere so you really have to drive there. Curious how the rise in online sales will change things.
I suppose North Hills is well set-up for walking from store to store, but I don't know a lot of people who would walk from one end of Brier Creek (Dick's) to the other (BJ's.) I think people tend to be in too much of a hurry and are too lazy to walk.
Whomever allowed Brier Creek to become such a nightmare for a pedestrian should be slapped upside the head. It's a vehicular centered shopping center, masquerading as friendly to pedestrians. Definitely far from walkable.
It could have been so much better, but instead you have a glorified strip mall with isolated islands of retail.
We created the indoor mall so we wouldn't have to walk in the blazing sun or blowing snow, but we seem to have come right back around where we were. lol.
Tell me about it. I don't know why people are such fickle and trendy sheep. Instead of dealing with their own depression or other mental challenges that force them to always want something different, they spend their life on the hamster wheel seeking change for the simple sake of change.
Indoor malls were highly walkable (in any weather), more efficient and better for the environment in most climates (stores did not need to individually deal with heating/cooling issues involving outside doors constantly opening on hot or cold days), and they didn't insult the shopper's intelligence by trying to fool their senses into believing they were visiting Venice some time in a prior century. We didn't need these cheesy, phony pseudo-downtown areas that aren't really downtown areas. The average consumer has lost about 30 IQ points since the 1980s.
Tell me about it. I don't know why people are such fickle and trendy sheep. Instead of dealing with their own depression or other mental challenges that force them to always want something different, they spend their life on the hamster wheel seeking change for the simple sake of change.
Indoor malls were highly walkable (in any weather), more efficient and better for the environment in most climates (stores did not need to individually deal with heating/cooling issues involving outside doors constantly opening on hot or cold days), and they didn't insult the shopper's intelligence by trying to fool their senses into believing they were visiting Venice some time in a prior century. We didn't need these cheesy, phony pseudo-downtown areas that aren't really downtown areas. The average consumer has lost about 30 IQ points since the 1980s.
How do you create downtown areas though that actually become legit downtown areas? That seems to be the question here.
How do you create downtown areas though that actually become legit downtown areas? That seems to be the question here.
Its tough in the Triangle, as there are so many "central" areas. Raleigh, Durham, RTP, Chapel Hill. All pull in people for work, and people (usually) want to live and buy reasonably close to where they work.
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