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If having employment opportunities, dining & shopping options, doctors & dentists and all the other things one needs to live is a good thing for downtown Durham & Raleigh, then why is not not a good thing for Holly Springs, Apex, Fuquay & Clayton? Why isn't it a good thing to create exactly what the green people are suggesting, just in another spot than just the downtown of a city?
Actually, green people are NOT suggesting sprawl.
The human population always grows. It will keep growing. Growth here will continue. You cannot stop it. How many people do you think can fit in Downtown Raleigh & Durham? 5 million? 100 million? At some point the growth has to go out. Why not create it the proper way be trying to have great companies like Novartis set up shop in places other than RTP? Spread the wealth and give people more choice than all flocking to the same areas to work.
So in essence, the best thing to do would be to have smart growth for the human population. Should we advocate a child policy such as China?
Why can't the growth go UP? Look at the green residential buildings that are being created in New Orleans. If we continue to build OUT, we will continue to abuse the resources and environment we want to protect.
I also suggest reading "Guns, Germs & Steel" and "Collapse." Both are by Jared Diamond.
Remember, no one lives completely green. They just like to preach how others do not live green enough.
It's time to think outside the box when it comes to growth. Too many places focus on only building up the already dense areas, with the same poor end result. We were having a CALM & PLEASANT discussion on growth with no negative attacks. I would like to keep it that way, please.
You know, I try to remain an educated man. If you could, could you please point me to the sources that advocate sprawl in the effort to create a green community?
So why can't everyone else do this? If you are choosing to live your life exactly how you want, why can't other people do the same?
I support that 100%. That is why I am against urban only development. As I clearly state on a constant basis, I favor urban, suburban and rural development so that ALL people can choose to live how THEY want to, rather than being told by OTHER people how they should live. I support up and out development done in an activity center design, so that people from ALL cities and towns can have the same opportunities in their own town, rather than just the people in the cities. The people in the suburbs and country are just as important and deserving.
This is why we have companies like Novartis and many others setting up shop in places other than just RTP and the cities. Urban, suburban and rural planning is what is needed, not just urban. The plan I have been pushing is the one that will move forward. I just want it to be done quicker and more complete.
I am happy that Novartis, and now Apple, are setting up shop in more rural areas. People will work in those areas and buy products in those towns and help the local economies... hopefully.
You see, no one can force people to live where they work. Are we to suggest to companies like Novartis that they only hire people who live in Holly Springs? Are we to suggest to the workers that they cannot live anywhere else? Are we going to suggest that they can't buy groceries, get a haircut, or have a medical exam anywhere else?
If you want "little, green communities" situated around every company that is in a rural setting, at what point does that area stop becoming rural?
You want to use sprawl to help build green communities. That would be like buying a Honda Civic and then complaining about GM dealerships going under because they can't make a profit.
I support that 100%. That is why I am against urban only development. As I clearly state on a constant basis, I favor urban, suburban and rural development so that ALL people can choose to live how THEY want to, rather than being told by OTHER people how they should live. I support up and out development done in an activity center design, so that people from ALL cities and towns can have the same opportunities in their own town, rather than just the people in the cities. The people in the suburbs and country are just as important and deserving.
What if they enjoy living how they are living now? What if they don't want change?
But people who live in the suburbs and country live there because they want to be AWAY from the hustle and bustle. They don't want to be near the "activity."
How would an "activity center design" differ from a city or a suburb?
And who is going to pay for all of this construction?
There is no "perfect" one size fits all solution, kingyouth. All we can do is try to make EVERY situation the best it can be. I have put forth my solutions and it allows the most people the best opportunity to live the way THEY want to. No one should be "expected" to live in an urban city setting if they don't want to and nor should a city lover be forced to live in a country setting. I am glad to hear you say you are happy that these companies are spreading the wealth, which is the original point. Let's hope for more of this.
There is no "perfect" one size fits all solution, kingyouth. All we can do is try to make EVERY situation the best it can be. I have put forth my solutions and it allows the most people the best opportunity to live the way THEY want to. No one should be "expected" to live in an urban city setting if they don't want to and nor should a city lover be forced to live in a country setting. I am glad to hear you say you are happy that these companies are spreading the wealth, which is the original point. Let's hope for more of this.
Hold on. Now you say there's no perfect solution, that we should live and let live.
Why did you say earlier in the thread that sprawl is "also the greenest way to develop"? Was that just a provocation or do you actually believe it?
There is no "perfect" one size fits all solution, kingyouth. All we can do is try to make EVERY situation the best it can be. I have put forth my solutions and it allows the most people the best opportunity to live the way THEY want to. No one should be "expected" to live in an urban city setting if they don't want to and nor should a city lover be forced to live in a country setting. I am glad to hear you say you are happy that these companies are spreading the wealth, which is the original point. Let's hope for more of this.
You make no sense. You are just complete double talk. You went on and on about making "activity centers" for people so they could live close to where they work. Yet when people question you or ask to explain yourself further, you then say that you hope we can "make every situation the best it can be." That is not what you have been advocating. You have been "expecting" people to live in these "activity centers." What if they were built and no one decided to live there? Wouldn't that be considered waste?
Still, I wanted to continue this dialogue. I was hoping you could provide me with more research and sources that claim that sprawl is necessary for a green community to succeed. I was hoping you would answer my (and other people's) questions. People have been bringing up valid counterpoints, yet you don't discuss those ideas.
How would people be wooed to living in these centers? Would the government give them tax credits? Would someone who drives a hybrid be a better candidate for a job over someone who drives an SUV? Would the company give people bonuses for living green?
In the end, what is really different between this "activity center" and a city?
Last edited by kingyouth; 06-14-2009 at 11:43 PM..
Saw this in the paper this morning and thought I'd add to to your discussion (and avoid another thread being posted)
Holly Springs' fortunes rise - Wake County - News & Observer (http://www.newsobserver.com/news/wake/story/1569301.html - broken link)
Great link, Dave. Thanks for posting it. This shows how well the model I am speaking about works. I am hoping that other towns will follow the same plan. This is the mix we need and it shows in their budget. I can only hope that my town would do the same as Holly Springs. I really don't want to move again.
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