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Old 02-01-2010, 08:37 AM
 
997 posts, read 4,161,179 times
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If so Toll will come in and put up a few model homes that make them look like nothing else you've ever seen and in the end you'll end up with something that looks nothing like the model except for the 4 wall structure.

Toll has always been my favorite models to walk through.
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
11,792 posts, read 27,455,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jln69 View Post
If so Toll will come in and put up a few model homes that make them look like nothing else you've ever seen and in the end you'll end up with something that looks nothing like the model except for the 4 wall structure.

Toll has always been my favorite models to walk through.
Here is the key, anytime you walk through a model and you are considering buying in the neighborhood...ASK HOW MUCH TO BUY THE MODEL.

If the base price of the home is $200,000 and the model cost $400,000...you now know that it took $200,000 in upgrades to make the model look as it does!!!

The issue right now is...even if Toll builds $500,000 homes, will they sell? $600,000? $700,000?

Only time will tell.

Vicki
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Old 02-01-2010, 11:01 AM
 
184 posts, read 710,744 times
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Default Toll is one of two "finalists"

There was an article in friday's Triangle Business Journal that indicated that Toll Brothers and an unnamed out-of-state private equity firm are the finalists on SunTrust Bank’s list of buyers for Hasentree. Here is the link:

List cut to 2 for Hasentree buyer - Triangle Business Journal:
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Old 02-01-2010, 11:10 AM
 
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I try to view this as a positive. The original developer came in with a plan. It did not work out. I trust Toll Bros. or anyone of that level to make a good situation out of a bad situation.

They may have to re-position Hasentree from "Extremely Exclusive" to "Moderately Exclusive", but that is not a bad thing given the market.

It is however, a downer for those already invested in the development. But as always, "Buyer Beware".
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Old 02-01-2010, 03:06 PM
 
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What they build in there will depend on what they pay for the property, but I'm pretty sure it will be well north of $500k
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Old 02-01-2010, 05:19 PM
 
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There is very scant good news for the current home owners if Toll starts to develop. The neighborhood will instantly lose its cache.
Toll makes giant empty boxes. If you want their homes to looks somewhat "custom" you will pay through the nose and, in the end, it will still be Toll Bros.
If I were a current homeowner, I would be UNHAPPY.
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Old 02-02-2010, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Raleigh
64 posts, read 148,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theS5 View Post
There is very scant good news for the current home owners if Toll starts to develop. The neighborhood will instantly lose its cache.
Toll makes giant empty boxes. If you want their homes to looks somewhat "custom" you will pay through the nose and, in the end, it will still be Toll Bros.
If I were a current homeowner, I would be UNHAPPY.
NEWS: Current homeowners are probably already unhappy. This is far from the first time this has happened, and long-term investments will be okay. Most all of the homeowners there now will face losing some of their equity from prior homes, but overall, they should be very glad that someone is goiing to come in and make a success out of the place. Those that bought to make a short term profit, well, welcome to the real world. Any lost "cache" will be forgotten a few years from now. I've seen this before, and I can tell you that Toll has the experience to pull this off, and they won't do it by building cheap, crappy looking homes.

This is an opportunity for them to make big time profit if they build good looking homes in an exclusive community at a good value, and they know how to do it. The homes in this community will come with a lot of the custom extras. Why? Because that's where all the profits are.

This will end up being one of the better alternatives that could occur for the existing homeowners. Here's another point: Toll is known in many other parts of the country for building a high-end product, and people coming from other areas know them. Oh, and no, I don't work for Toll......

Last edited by catseye; 02-02-2010 at 08:17 AM..
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Old 02-02-2010, 11:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catseye View Post
I've seen this before, and I can tell you that Toll has the experience to pull this off, and they won't do it by building cheap, crappy looking homes.

Unfortunately cheap, crappy looking homes is all Toll can do. Even their $1m+ homes are basically just blown up versions of their small, cheap, crap homes. Walk around a $1m Toll house in Brier Creek and compare the detail, trim, finish, build quality with a $1m custom builder home in Hasentree and you will see a world of difference. This IMHO is a complete disaster for existing homeowners there.

That said, the existing homeowners are already sitting in a disaster. As far as I can see Hasentree has pretty much all the most expensive foreclosures in the state. A home that was in the 2007 Parade for $4m was foreclosed on at $3.1m and sold for $2.6m. I would say the top end at best people are looking at 25% loss of equity. Unfortunately these guys got this model wrong. They got carried away with successes in smaller, sub 100 lot luxury sub-divisions, that they somehow thought it could scale into one massive several hundred lot subdivision.

Long term there will be no recovery of value for those that got in the top, unfortunately, and Toll coming in will just seal the deal that it will never be what was hoped for.
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Old 02-02-2010, 12:19 PM
 
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Unfortunately for the homeowners in Hasentree, this is not "other parts of the country". Yes, Toll can put up a box in NJ and get top dollar because they have the ability to buy the only overpriced land left to develop. They have been successful at luring people in with soaring ceilings and large master baths, because a truly custom home in NJ is well above the Toll price point. This is not the case here in NC.
It is OK is you live in a Toll home. Not a thing wrong with it. That does not change the fact that the homeowners in Hasentree have just been handed a 40% reduction in the value of their homes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by catseye View Post
NEWS: Current homeowners are probably already unhappy. This is far from the first time this has happened, and long-term investments will be okay. Most all of the homeowners there now will face losing some of their equity from prior homes, but overall, they should be very glad that someone is goiing to come in and make a success out of the place. Those that bought to make a short term profit, well, welcome to the real world. Any lost "cache" will be forgotten a few years from now. I've seen this before, and I can tell you that Toll has the experience to pull this off, and they won't do it by building cheap, crappy looking homes.

This is an opportunity for them to make big time profit if they build good looking homes in an exclusive community at a good value, and they know how to do it. The homes in this community will come with a lot of the custom extras. Why? Because that's where all the profits are.

This will end up being one of the better alternatives that could occur for the existing homeowners. Here's another point: Toll is known in many other parts of the country for building a high-end product, and people coming from other areas know them. Oh, and no, I don't work for Toll......
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Old 02-02-2010, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Raleigh
64 posts, read 148,866 times
Reputation: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by ma91pmh View Post
Unfortunately cheap, crappy looking homes is all Toll can do. Even their $1m+ homes are basically just blown up versions of their small, cheap, crap homes. Walk around a $1m Toll house in Brier Creek and compare the detail, trim, finish, build quality with a $1m custom builder home in Hasentree and you will see a world of difference. This IMHO is a complete disaster for existing homeowners there.

That said, the existing homeowners are already sitting in a disaster. As far as I can see Hasentree has pretty much all the most expensive foreclosures in the state. A home that was in the 2007 Parade for $4m was foreclosed on at $3.1m and sold for $2.6m. I would say the top end at best people are looking at 25% loss of equity. Unfortunately these guys got this model wrong. They got carried away with successes in smaller, sub 100 lot luxury sub-divisions, that they somehow thought it could scale into one massive several hundred lot subdivision.

Long term there will be no recovery of value for those that got in the top, unfortunately, and Toll coming in will just seal the deal that it will never be what was hoped for.
Like I said, I have seen this before. Turnberry on Millbrook Rd. is an example. Custom homes in a neighborhood full of weeds until Ryland, then Bill Clark took over. Complete turnaround. Do you really think a custom home in there now sells for noticably less (if at all) compared to other comparable custom homes on the market at the same time because of who built the neighbors home? Most people don't even know Ryland and Clark were even there, nor do they care.

The complete disaster for the homeowners at Hasentree has already occurred. The very best thing that can happen to those folks is for someone to come in and sell a lot of homes. IIRC, the covenents in Hasentree dictate stone/brick exteriors. These will help provide the consistency in the appearance of the neighborhood.
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