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totally makes scence... BUT how do I get the data to plug the numbers in the formula? #'s such as how long the units are siting on the market, # of sold units ect? Is there a way that perspective buyers can do this for themselves? the less I use my realtor the better my sanity
The three things ever real estate licensee should be able to tell the client are 1. Market Trends
2. Price Comparisons (Market Analysis)
3. Absorption Rate.
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Shoot your Realtor a email asking for the info by price range & plug it into excel yourself.
"Hey, I know you are real busy, but could you send me all the properties both active and sold for the past 12 months from $xxx,000 to $xxx,000 . Really appreciate it man. I don't need the full print out, just the basics will due."
I wasn't singling out HD and Kohler specifically, but meant it to apply to many of the other big-box stores as well (such as Lowe's and Best Buy). And I will indeed search for a website doing a side-by-side dissection but in the meanwhile I offer this in support of my argument:
1. Manufacturers do not need to have a separate plant in order to produce a cheaper version of a specific product, especially one as small as a faucet. All that's needed is for part of the assembly line to be either set up or retooled to insert a different version, materialwise, of a particular part; or in some cases to eliminate the insertion of a particular part. Ditto for things like the quality of the finish on an item.
2. If the large manufacturers are indeed supplying the exact same, in all respects, product to the Big Box Store as to the independent retailer, than please tell me why in so many instances the model number of the Big Box item is slightly different from the one on the standard version of the same item? This is easily seen in many products from Hunter ceiling fans (the manufacturer's packaging in all respects adds the letters "-HD" to the model number of the HD item whereas it never appears on the same item sold by anyone else) to Pioneer Hi-Def TVs sold at Best Buy. I once questioned Andersen Windows on this, and tried to get a Yes or No answer from them as to whether their HD line of 400-series windows is EXACTLY THE SAME IN ALL RESPECTS as the 400-series window line sold by Window-Rama, an independent local dealer. Andersen refused to say that they are the same, but only that "Andersen stands behind our products regardless of where the item is purchased." That's all well and good but that was not my question. Try it yourself and see whether Andersen will say, in writing, "The 400 Series windows at HD are exactly the same in all respects as the 400 Series windows sold elsewhere" or "The 400 Series windows sold at HD are slightly different than the 400 Series windows sold elsewhere." They will not do it. Draw your own conclusions.
This sort of thing happens time and time again with products sold by Big Box retailers. Take a specific Toshiba TV for example. Best Buy sells model #TZ55X71 but if you went to Toshiba's website you would not find that model number in their product listing. What you would find is model #TN55X81 which when you compare the specs is identical to the TZ55X71 except for the screen protector and one or two minor features. That model #TZ55X71 is made ONLY for Best Buy and as per Toshiba's agreement with them cannot be sold by anyone else. This is great for BestBuy because it eliminates price-matching ("we will meet or beat anyone's price on the identical item" - identical meaning the exact same model number, how about that?) and of course BB can sell it cheaper: Toshiba isn't putting every single feature into this Big Box version of the TN55X81, so it's slightly cheaper to make AND BestBuy is also buying it in volume. But do you honestly think Toshiba has built "a whole separate plant" in order to produce the BB version of this television??!!! Of course not. They are simply programming the assembly line slightly differently for production of that model. And I'm sure Kohler, et al., do the same thing for the HD and/or Lowe's version of some of their plumbing fixtures.
Sorry for going off topic.
I've heard from the mouth of a contractor that there is in fact a difference in the quality of HD Andersens vs. "regular" ones. Another example of this phenomena can be seen at the site of the John Deere website, at the warranty section. There's Levi's/Walmart as well. The "difference" does exist, maybe not in all circumstances, though.
Location: Sometimes Maryland, sometimes NoVA. Depends on the day of the week
1,501 posts, read 11,755,103 times
Reputation: 1135
Quote:
Originally Posted by house-hunter
I will answer your questions the best that I can and in the order that you asked them.
1. Manufacturers most certainly need a separate plant. At least most manufactures that Produce MECHANICAL devices. You mentioned Kohler as an example. They most certainly would need to devote a new plant to a "cheaper version" However they could be out sourcing it to a fab. in china. but I have not seen collaborative evidence of this. Please let me know whet you find such evidence. Do you have any idea what you mean when you say retooled? that implies a new die to be designed and cast for the job. For example some metal dies will cast metal parts better and some other is needed to cast plastic, usually ceramics. also the process to refit the machine for the new die takes hours at a time. It would not make economic sense for Kohler.
Case in point: Did you know that Hondas and Acuras are made on the same line right here in the US? Those are most certainly mechanical devices with minor quality differences built not only in the same factory, but on the same line. I know there is a major difference between a car and a faucet, but its just one example of numerous products made on the same line. GE makes several different levels of dishwashers on the same line. There is only one GE "dishwasher line" in the US. They make every model on that line. If its Tuesday, it must be model X, Wednesday - model Y, etc.
And just to give my credentials to back this up: MS in Industrial Engineering, and I've spent time in the following plants: Honda (car and motorcycle) in Ohio, GE (dishwasher and refridgeration) in KY, and Celenese (acetate) in VA. (I do not work for any of these companies now).
Last edited by rubytue; 02-25-2007 at 06:10 PM..
Reason: grammar
I've heard from the mouth of a contractor that there is in fact a difference in the quality of HD Andersens vs. "regular" ones....
Anything coming out of the mouth of a contractor should be scrutinized over just a bit I bet he ended up using "his" window distributor where he gets a cut of the sale of the window... usually 10%. At HD he gets nothing, not even a contractors discount. hmnnnn
sorry also for being off topic.
Last edited by house-hunter; 02-25-2007 at 06:32 PM..
This was very informative! Let's face it, most people do not have the ability to go to real estate school and learn how to sell a home in the quickest time at the highest price possible. So they have to rely on agents. Guess what, we come in all types. Personalities usually bring you together, and you only hope, then, that you have one that is experienced, willing to work with you or new and always willing to work with you, anyway you say. So a rookie takes your home at the price you want (despite comps, because you need a certain amount to start over), and they push you into signing a contract quickly (there are defaulted timeframes in every contract), and a girl at the office types up the word patio instead of deck and does not put in the extra bedroom you had put in (unpermitted, but it's there). Then the buyer comes in with a ridiculously low offer (because his agent is getting a % higher commission if you accept his lowest offer). It's a wonder homes get sold at all. Just trust the system. Find an agent you like and trust, and feel has your best interests at heart. Use reputable offices, acceptable fees, and let the market do its job. Listing agents try and market, buyers agents try and find homes.If you use all the standardized contracts and disclosures, you should not need a lawyer. Just follow the contract. There is a system in place, let it work. Don't be greedy, treat your agent like he knows what he is doing (or she), use comps based on homes sold, currently listed (based on age, sq ft, location), and average out the price. If it does not bring enough profit, wait until a better market comes along, or accept that you might be lucky someone else likes your home enough to buy it. It's not a science. If you can't afford a house at today's prices, in the area you're in, move to a less expensive area.
By the way, asking someone to reduce their commission is like asking a plumber to lower his rates or a doctor. If you can sell your home without a realtor, please do. Once you've experienced some of the problems of selling such a huge investment, you might be less inclined to question the cost of selling. Have you ever looked at the flyers of a discount seller? Often, the back of the flyer has all your competitors on it? There are so many differences in agents and problems that can and do arise. There's a commercial out there where the doctor is giving instructions to a man on the phone who says, "don't you think you should be doing this?" That's what marketing and selling your home is like. There are skills involved. As for enthusiasm, clients usually want honesty and enthusiasm, but if you point out their price is too high to sell right now, quickly, they say, Well, it only takes one buyer, and we are not in a hurry. That's great, especially since they are not paying for any ads, flyers, etc. You can't have it both ways - as a seller, you walk away with hundreds of thousands in some areas; be willing to share the rewards with the one person who is your partner in the sale. The per centages are proportionately small, and it is not as easy as it looks to make a living. $50,000 a year is really $35,000 or less, after we pay our own insurance, retirement, ads, taxes.
By the way, asking someone to reduce their commission is like asking a plumber to lower his rates or a doctor. If you can sell your home without a realtor, please do. Once you've experienced some of the problems of selling such a huge investment, you might be less inclined to question the cost of selling. Have you ever looked at the flyers of a discount seller? Often, the back of the flyer has all your competitors on it? There are so many differences in agents and problems that can and do arise. There's a commercial out there where the doctor is giving instructions to a man on the phone who says, "don't you think you should be doing this?" That's what marketing and selling your home is like. There are skills involved. As for enthusiasm, clients usually want honesty and enthusiasm, but if you point out their price is too high to sell right now, quickly, they say, Well, it only takes one buyer, and we are not in a hurry. That's great, especially since they are not paying for any ads, flyers, etc. You can't have it both ways - as a seller, you walk away with hundreds of thousands in some areas; be willing to share the rewards with the one person who is your partner in the sale. The per centages are proportionately small, and it is not as easy as it looks to make a living. $50,000 a year is really $35,000 or less, after we pay our own insurance, retirement, ads, taxes.
I really don't feel the least bit sorry for the poor realtors out there who don't make enough... sounds to me like you got into the buiz a bit too late. perhaps after 2005? well now you will have to do a bit more work like the other decent realtors out there like the guy that started this thread. if you cant deal with it than get out!
seems to me that if you are in CA where the prices are still way too high and you still cant make it in the buiz than its time to think about alternatives? care sales? Just kidding!
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