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Licensing has some negative side-effects, but it's totally toothless without such a board.
Why would you file an Ethics complaint ? Are you saying it's unethical to continue with an Industry accepted pratice which is agreed on by both parties ?
How is the buyer "tricking" the agent. I'm simply suggesting that the agent offers buyers these three choices (answering any questions the buyers ask about them):
How can the buyer use trickery? The agent has all the paperwork and is the one presenting forms to the buyer. The buyer can argue with them, but the $YYY,YYY in the contract paperwork can actually be unilaterally decided by the agent if they choose to do so (the "take-it-or-leave it" pricing strategy).
The foundation of the entire scheme is clearly to empower duplicity on the part of the buyer.
The buyer is the principal and determines the property to be bought. Buyer always has that control. Buyer is not a pawn of the agent, but a client of the agent.
Buyer and agent can agree to a range from $400,000--$500,000, with the inverted commission plan.
And, all the time the buyer has earmarked homes and is planning to buy a $500,000 home, so you can put your hand out to the agent. All the embroidery in the world cannot disguise that goal.
I find it interesting how non-Realtors think they know more about how to run a Realtors business than the Realtors.
I've heard a lot of theories on how Realtors "should" change, including pay by the hour, or task; which buyers are extremely reluctant to accept because it requires them to pay up front money.
And I keep hearing that "change" is inevitable; if you're not changing to the theory I propose, then you're a dinosaur, and will be extinct; and the internet will make all agents obsolete. (Right; the internet that has all the data that is supplied by Realtors.
Where would that data come from if Realtors disappeared
The Op's scheme isn't even possible because in real life, buyers don't make buying decisions based on a price range, and any agent with half a brain would see through this scheme in a few seconds; say no and bid the person good day, and wish them luck.
It certainly isn't worth the time that people have been spending on it in this thread.
Licensing has some negative side-effects, but it's totally toothless without such a board.
For members of the NAR, which are REALTORS® they have an ethics board. All states have licensing boards, but your forumla has nothing to do with them. They only deal with licensing issues or laws that are broken. Not liking your formula has nothing to do with licensing.
REALTOR associations run 82% of the MLS, which is where that bias you are ranting about is entrenched. The National Association of REALTORS is typically one of the top 10 lobby organizations in the US. Currently, the association is number 7 in dollars spent on lobbying efforts. So you could share your formula with the REALTOR ethics board, but it doesn't violate any of the Code of Ethics so it won't go anywhere.
Seriously, what would you hope to accomplish with taking your forumla to the ethics board of the REALTOR association? Agents are free to charge whatever they want. Agents are welcome to use your forumla if they so desire. They are welcome to trade 5 cows for real estate services if they so desire. They are welcome to charge hourly or flat rates if they so desire. Nothing stops them from doing so, except themselves. Department of Justice has been all over the real estate industry for decades. Requiring agents to use your forumla would be price fixing and violate anti-trust laws.
...The National Association of REALTORS is typically one of the top 10 lobby organizations in the US. Currently, the association is number 7 in dollars spent on lobbying efforts.
True, but please note that most of the lobbying benefits home owners and buyers, not Realtors themselves. Stuff like trying to get the idiots in Washington to do something about flood insurance. Stopping them from passing idiotic rules that actually make it harder for qualified buyers to buy a home.
And, one thing I personally don't support, but which the Real Estate industry wants to keep, the mortgage interest deduction on your tax return. That's a different thread/discussion.
Quote:
Seriously, what would you hope to accomplish with taking your forumla to the ethics board of the REALTOR association? Agents are free to charge whatever they want. Agents are welcome to use your formula if they so desire. They are welcome to trade 5 cows for real estate services if they so desire. They are welcome to charge hourly or flat rates if they so desire. Nothing stops them from doing so, except themselves. Department of Justice has been all over the real estate industry for decades. Requiring agents to use your forumla would be price fixing and violate anti-trust laws.
True. I'm on the Ethics Committee on my state and local boards. We deal with complaints against Realtors who violate the Realtor Code of Ethics. Charging for one's services isn't a violation of the code of ethics, and therefore would not be a complaint that goes anywhere.
Lying, cheating, stealing, incompetence, dishonestly, misleading advertising, etc. are the things we deal with on the ethics panels. Not how much a Broker charges, or the formula used to determine compensation.
I think you've lost sight of the thread. Whether or not buyer's agency is free is another thread in this discussion along with the compensation plan. Let me retrace it for you:
"If you want to leave a mark on the market, find a mission in buyers paying their agents directly, without the artifice of passing funds through multiple sets of hands... Cutting the "Buyers agency is free" crap would do more people more good than playing games with a commission as now commonly constructed."
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Originally Posted by perfectlyGoodInk
More buyers and buyer agents implementing a compensation scheme negotiated between them independent of the terms specified by the listing agent will get more buyers and agents to want direct payment so they don't have to jump through hoops like rebates to achieve this.
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Originally Posted by MikeJaquish
Buyers will get hooked on rebates… Yet, they will think they are getting "free money."
Once people get something for 'free," they don't want to give it up. It becomes an "entitlement."
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Originally Posted by perfectlyGoodInk
...many buyers already think they are getting something for free (which is why some buyers treat it like doughnuts at an auto shop and help themselves to as much as they want).
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Originally Posted by MikeJaquish
Buyers WANT to believe it is free….
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Originally Posted by perfectlyGoodInk
And if you think it's crap, then it's important to explain why when somebody is arguing it.
... You suggested it ought to be my mission, but it sounds like it's something you care about more than me. I would guess the easiest way to go about it would be to have the Ethics Board take it up.
I am suggesting the best way for MikeJaguish to achieve the mission of "Cutting the 'Buyers agency is free' crap" is to go to the Ethics Board.
There is nothing unethical about offering whatever price or compensation scheme you choose to offer to a buyer, because they are free to walk away and pick a different agent with a different price. On the other hand, misrepresenting that price as free when it isn't seems to me like an ethics issue.
I think you've lost sight of the thread. Whether or not buyer's agency is free is another thread in this discussion along with the compensation plan. Let me retrace it for you:
I am suggesting the best way for MikeJaguish to achieve the mission of "Cutting the 'Buyers agency is free' crap" is to go to the Ethics Board.
There is nothing unethical about offering whatever price or compensation scheme you choose to offer to a buyer, because they are free to walk away and pick a different agent with a different price. On the other hand, misrepresenting that price as free when it isn't seems to me like an ethics issue.
The ethics have been addressed in the Realtor COE already. I just disagree with it. And many REALTORs need to read the COE and address their "Buyers agency is free, doesn't cost buyers a penny" in their ads to "not be unethical."
And I just don't see that issue as an acceptable rationalization for launch of a dishonest scheme to become agreeable or common.
I recognize the allure of easy money, and how that allure leads people to propose deceitful schemes, even if innocently and naively, and THAT is actually the topic of this thread, IIRC.
I think you've lost sight of the thread. Whether or not buyer's agency is free is another thread in this discussion along with the compensation plan. Let me retrace it for you:
... blah, blah, blah
..misrepresenting that price as free when it isn't seems to me like an ethics issue.
Good grief. You are so disconnected from reality it's starting to worry me.
Go on, file your complaint at your local board. You'll need to file it against a specific agent, which I suppose, will require you to entrap him by calling and asking: "if I hire you as my buyer agent, how much will it cost me?"
If he answers you correctly, he'll say something like, "well, our buyer representation agreement will stipulated that you pay me x%, but that I will seek first to collect from the seller, which in fact has happened in every one of my buyer side sales for the past x years. Therefore, you'll not have any out of pocket costs, or have to pay me anything, it's FREE to you, unless you and I agree otherwise on a home where the offered commission won't cover your fee to me".
It's not my complaint, it's MikeJaguish's. I agree that it is an issue, but I disagree that it is as important an issue as misaligned compensation.
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Originally Posted by austin-steve
it's FREE to you, unless you and I agree otherwise on a home where the offered commission won't cover your fee to me"
MikeJaguish, do you really care about this issue or not? If you really do, open another thread on it, as austin-steve originally suggested. I agree with you, but not in the priority, and it's distracting from the compensation plan to the point where people are getting the threads mixed up.
It's not my complaint, it's MikeJaguish's. I agree that it is an issue, but I disagree that it is as important an issue as misaligned compensation.
MikeJaguish, do you really care about this issue or not? If you really do, open another thread on it, as austin-steve originally suggested. I agree with you, but not in the priority, and it's distracting from the compensation plan to the point where people are getting the threads mixed up.
The bulk of my posts here have been about your compensation scheme.
I can continue in that vein, but it has been fully exposed for the scam it is multiple times already.
However, you are right. This thread is not the place for discussion of matters of any real substance. My error.
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