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Possibly entitlement out of perceived deserving due to gender roles.
It seems gender roles are only followed when it suits people.
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No different than wanking off is something a guy is capable of yet many refuse to do so thinking 'sex is a duty that can't be denied unless there is a good reason (implying consent/desire isn't a good reason)'
Women are capable of wanking off too, regardless of not many women admitting they do it, didn’t understand the example. Anyway, how about when a woman dates a man that has a lot of money and feels entitled to it. If a rich man doesn’t take them out on a helicopter ride, dinner, etc. women can feel insulted “Oh my gawd, but he is rich! Yet, he didn’t spend any money on me!” If we’re going that way then men could complain “Hey, she was hot, yet, no sex?!” That’s the bad thing about entitlements.
A simple solution is to simply not play gender cards. You, as a woman, are totally capable of opening your wallet and paying for a man’s dinner and wine, taxi ride, etc. just like he is capable of doing that for you. A man is totally capable of washing dishes, the same way you are. Why stop ourselves from doing something simply because “Oh no, that is a man’s/woman’s job”?
Onihc, why must you always shame and bully people who don't agree with you on this? If you want to be completely equitable all the way, that's super. But if another couple is perfectly happy if he asks her out and pays, what is that to you? You always have to take threads to "he does this but she doesn't and it's not fair. *I* do things my way, and it's really the best way to do things." Do what you want, and let other people do what works for them. We all know exactly what you think about these matters, word for word, so if you don't have anything new to add, why even say anything?
Last edited by fleetiebelle; 10-15-2012 at 05:06 PM..
Onihc, why must you always shame people who don't agree with you on this? If you want to be completely equitable all the way, that's super. But if another couple is perfectly happy if he asks her out and pays, what is that to you? You always have to take threads to "he does this but she doesn't and it's not fair." Do what you want, and let other people do what works for them. If you don't have anything new to add, why even say anything?
If everyone went by that logic then this forum would not exist.
I agree it's a bit strange, but not necessarily rude or uncalled for. And yes, I think you coulda/shoulda offered to help pay on past dates. So here's your opportunity to square it up. From this next date forward, you can perhaps discuss with him his view on these matters and come to some agreement/resolution for future dates. If you don't like what you hear, talk about it.
If everyone went by that logic then this forum would not exist.
Exactly. I am not telling her she's wrong. That is why I normally end my paragraphs with "So far it has worked fine with ME". I do get crap from women because of it and even straight up insults even to my family, oh well.
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Originally Posted by ChessieMom
No, that would be in your dreams.
A woman desiring sex up to that level? I agree with you. In his dreams. Imagine a woman putting all that effort to get a man to have sex with her.
It seems gender roles are only followed when it suits people.
Likely that won't stop anytime soon.
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Originally Posted by onihC
Women are capable of wanking off too, regardless of not many women admitting they do it, didn’t understand the example. How about when a woman dates a man that has a lot of money and feels entitled to it. If a rich man doesn’t take them out on a helicopter ride, dinner, etc. women can feel insulted “Oh my gawd, but he is rich! Yet, he didn’t spend any money on me!” If we’re going that way then men could complain “Hey, she was hot, yet, no sex?!” That’s the bad thing about entitlements.
Yet in my experience I see far more guys than gals touting 'sex is a duty that can't be denied' and withholding/denying sex. Perhaps you missed the comparison that gals may refuse to pay when they are capable of doing it because of entitlement no different than guys may refuse to **** off when they are capable of doing it because of entitlement.
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Originally Posted by onihC
A simple solution is to simply not play gender cards. You, as a woman, are totally capable of opening your wallet and paying for a man’s dinner and wine, taxi ride, etc. just like he is capable of doing that for you. A man is totally capable of washing dishes, the same way you are. Why stop ourselves from doing something simply because “Oh no, that is a man’s/woman’s job”?
Likely people stop themselves from doing something they don't want because "On no, that is a man's/woman's job"
Telling how your continued proposal is gals initiating, asking out, paying, and etc and the only exchange for the guy is doing household chores which tends to come when past dating and in a relationship.
We can do our part by not participating in it. Would you be willing to approach that new guy you find interesting and/or attractive, asking his phone # and giving him yours, asking him out, taking him out to dinner and wine, being ready to pay it all (just like he would), etc.? Or do you think this is supposed to be a man’s job?
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Yet in my experience I see far more guys than gals touting 'sex is a duty that can't be denied' and withholding/denying sex. Perhaps you missed the comparison that gals may refuse to pay when they are capable of doing it because of entitlement no different than guys may refuse to **** off when they are capable of doing it because of entitlement.
How bad it is for some guys out there to think sex is an entitlement. No wonder many end up disappointed when they get married and see how sex simply fades. No man should feel entitled to sex as much as no woman should feel entitled to have all her expenses paid for by a man.
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Likely people stop themselves from doing something they don't want because "On no, that is a man's/woman's job"
Telling how your continued proposal is gals initiating, asking out, paying, and etc and the only exchange for the guy is doing household chores which tends to come when past dating and in a relationship.
Well, is there anything else you think a guy doesn’t do because “he’s a guy”?
We can do our part by not participating in it. Would you be willing to approach that new guy you find interesting and/or attractive, asking his phone # and giving him yours, asking him out, taking him out to dinner and wine, being ready to pay it all (just like he would), etc.? Or do you think this is supposed to be a man’s job?
People can do their part by not participating in it if they want to.
I would not be willing as I date for my amusement and entertainment and many guys suited for such use ask me out so I see no reason for me to bother.
I don't think this is supposed to be a man's job rather I do think there's no reason for me to start this equality when in my experience most men only care about equality when it comes to benefiting their wallet, hitting gals, or having an easier time dating not when it comes to men wear the pants or the sl*t double standard.
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Originally Posted by onihC
How bad it is for some guys out there to think sex is an entitlement. No wonder many end up disappointed when they get married and see how sex simply fades. No man should feel entitled to sex as much as no woman should feel entitled to have all her expenses paid for by a man.
Likely many guys will continue to feel entitled to sex and many gals will continue to feel entitled to wealth.
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Originally Posted by onihC
Well, is there anything else you think a guy doesn’t do because “he’s a guy”?
Plenty for some guys such as name change during marriage, not wearing the pants, and not facing the same shaming when he's promiscuous because 'he's a guy'.
Telling how will the gender roles you seem to only think of one thing guys don't do yet come up with plenty for gals. In my opinion there's plenty on both sides.
You made a point. I was just trying to illustrate how an action doesn’t guarantee the partner from doing something for the other. “No sex? But I spend all my money on her!...What? No sweet candle light dinner?! No expensive gifts?! But I let him have sex with me!” That is why it is always recommended to NOT spend all kinds of money on women or quickly have sex with a guy until the relationship has matured. If a man leaves because there was no sex, that can be dodging a bullet for a woman. If a woman leaves because a man used a coupon or didn’t spend hundreds on her meal, same thing, good riddance.
A meal is a little money that a woman is capable to pay. Don’t see why many refuse to do so. If a man can pay it, I don’t see how a woman is so incapable of paying it as well.
Next time you go out and the bill comes, take the little receipt fold and set it in front of her, that should get your point across.
I always pay my way and won't have sex outside of an exclusive relationship. However, that's because I simply don't trust men in general and want to protect myself. Other women may view it differently.
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