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The thing is that it does. Of course not for all women. But there are plenty, who lack male attention and self esteem. In their eyes, attention from men in any form is always a good thing.
These are the ones who will fall for things like "you'd be so pretty if you just cut your hair like this, or wore this dress, or got these implants, or lost 10 pounds and a whole bunch of other things."
Urban dictionary states that "negs" are for the cream of the crop sort of women (in the looks department anyway), but I get your point.
Anyway, I seldom go to bars, but I can totally see myself pulling a "NEG" on a woman at a bar, failing, and have her go back to her friends to laugh at my expense, and if she's never heard about PUA stuff, her comment would probably be something along the line of, "Some stupid douchebag kept trying to TEASE me". Point being, it's all semantics to me.
Bars aside, I get negs thrown my way day in day out. As a matter of fact, there's a particular woman at my job who frequently refers to me as "American Boy". Now that I think about it, in the context, it has "NEG" written all over it, because it's a light insult wrapped into a compliment, which is essentially what a neg is. But really, it's nothing to be bothered about because it's so trivial.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408
I think a classic neg, that would probably work more often than you think is something that poses a challenge. Insinuates something about her character, and offers a way to play another role. Something like "I know that a nice girl like you doesn't make out with strangers at the bar."
Suddenly, she doesn't really want to be seen as a nice girl by this "hot guy" at the bar, and she is apt to do something out of character. A classic PUA technique.
Okay, but I don't see the problem with this scenario. The way I see it, his comment wasn't intended to mess with the woman's self-esteem.
Bars aside, I get negs thrown my way day in day out. As a matter of fact, there's a particular woman at my job who frequently refers to me as "American Boy". Now that I think about it, in the context, it has "NEG" written all over it, because it's a light insult wrapped into a compliment, which is essentially what a neg is. But really, it's nothing to be bothered about because it's so trivial.
Okay, but I don't see the problem with this scenario. The way I see it, his comment wasn't intended to mess with the woman's self-esteem.
And what does she get? Nothing?
The scenario I described is a tiny bit manipulative. Because in a PUA book, that would be one of the lines. And then the said girl would see him repeat is a dozen times.
Of course, if she was in the mood to make out with him, I'd assume it was enjoyable for both. But that was false pretense of course But it depends on the girl as well. She might be playing along with his teasing with the intent to make out with him all along.
But also, from the perspective of PUA, after the make out session he probably achieved his goal. A "kiss to close." But she might have thought it was a kiss to a first date.
In PUA lingo, the goal is always to get the girl to get physical, in such away so that she doesn't feel coerced into it. Like it was some sort of destiny that she fell into or some other nonsense.
Its advice for long-term relationships (beyond multiple warnings that IT'S A TRAP) is to play head games with women so they don't figure out you like them.
Learning how to have self-confidence and approach women is a good thing, but I don't see anything redeeming in the blogs that are regularly posted here. The PUA movement seems much more concerned with having sex with as many women as possible, as quickly as possible.
I don't think the Find A Girlfriend movement has caught on yet, because the PUAs seem agree with Lloyd Christmas that "chicks are for ***s."
With any movement or following, there will be people who use the knowledge and information for their own bad intentions.
It's tough in the dating world - in my opinion, especially for men. Just look at this forum. Every day a guy posts something like "she just likes me as a friend" or "I get nervous when I talk to a beautiful woman".
To me this movement gives these types of guys tools, logic, mindsets and lifestyles to follow to become as great a man as he can be.
What I mean is when you really break it down, men can use each separate piece of information and apply it to their lives outside of meeting women.
For instance - to approach a girl, you need to have relaxed shoulders, confident body langauge, speak loud and clear (if at a noisy place), ask her a question that will provoke interest/curiosity, tease her a little bit, make physical contact (to show her you're interested more than just friends), etc. etc.
When I meet with a client, I use all of the body language advice I've learned from PUA at those meetings. In fact, I use it every day of my life, and that is who I've become - a relaxed, confident guy.
Additionally, whenever I meet men that I don't know, I apply this information as well. I bring up topics and start conversations that are thought-provoking.
Like I said above, such complex and powerful information can and will be used for bad purposes, and there's no doubt in my mind that it does. However, there are even more people in the community using it for good, and use it to be better men for the women who complain there aren't any good men out there
Yes. Negging is different from banter. But hey. (shrug) Have at it, what can I say? You seem to want to believe that manipulating people is normal social interaction, and I can't really tell you otherwise. It's a mindset. And if it's what you need to get attention, it's what you need, I can't judge as I imagine it would be a pretty bad feeling not to have any clue how to get attention except through games.
I've never been that lonely so I can't judge.
One of my friends once tried to get into "the game". He quickly learned about negging and thought it was gold. Later that night he was talking to a girl and said "you really need to work on your hair more" and she covered her face and walked away - it was sad, and I scolded him. "WTF was that, that's not a neg!"
People will interpret a "neg" the way they want and then use it, and it's not necessarily the true definition of one.
As an outsider to the whole PUA thing until I saw this thread I really did get a couple of good laughs when I googled it. It's a whole cottage industry. Some of these guys are full on sociopaths (reference the alpha/beta blog thread). That said it seems to be almost a male equivalent to some of the trashy rags that I've known some women to read.
After perusing some of the PUA forums I really got the impression that a lot of these guys are only hurting themselves in the long run since they didn't seem emotionally mature enough to handle the consequences of their goals.
As for teaching men to be "comfortable in their own skin," I don't see how. It is teaching men to behave in ways they normally would NOT. That is not being comfortable in their own skin. That is faking it.
Yes they're faking it. Just like a fat person is faking it when they go to the gym. I said it before and I'll say it again, you guys are complaining about the tools and the process. They're merely a means to an end just like dieting and working out, or having a tutor for math, or going to drivers ed classes. It's all about improving yourself. Doing something you normally wouldn't due to attain a desired result is not "faking it". In reality it's about IMPROVING YOURSELF. Do some of the guys out there keep using the training tools longer then they should? Sure.
The guys that we see in the community who constantly fake it, they're the ones coming back 6 months later after they get a girlfriend because they didn't complete the self-improvement process and she eventually sees through hi facade. For those who do improve themselves, who graduate into doing things naturally (which is the goal), you'd never know they were doing anything synthetic....because they aren't. At that point who they are is a pretty attractive individual with a solid understanding of social dynamics and who have their house in order. Fake until you make it is the saying. What that means is you fake being xyz and practice it over and over again until you do become xyz. That's what I mean about forming good habits and becoming the best version of yourself.
The overall theme im hearing is, If guys were using this to have successful LTR's and marriages it would be ok. But the fact that some or most are using this to sleep with as many women as possible then it becomes a problem
Is that the core of the issue? Just come out and say it then
The overall theme im hearing is, If guys were using this to have successful LTR's and marriages it would be ok. But the fact that some or most are using this to sleep with as many women as possible then it becomes a problem
Is that the core of the issue? Just come out and say it then
Given the fact that the definition of a Pick-Up Artist is trying to become skilled at meeting, attracting and seducing women...
It certainly doesn't come across as men improving themselves to be good men, but rather improving themselves to get laid by as many women as possible.
Given the fact that the definition of a Pick-Up Artist is trying to become skilled at meeting, attracting and seducing women...
It certainly doesn't come across as men improving themselves to be good men, but rather improving themselves to get laid by as many women as possible.
But If that's what he wants for his life in particular, what's wrong with that? Do you have a problem with men being "players" In general? Or you just don't want too many "players" running around?
Plus I don't believe all men who use or have used it to success are just out screwing women. I'm sure they're many who are in great LTR's. IMO(from what ive read)the goal of PUA is for guys to get confidence to get exactly what they want out of dating. Whether that is being a "player" or meeting your dream woman that you want to be with for the rest of your life Etc. And I can't see how anyone can be against men(or women) getting what they want out of their dating life.
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but I get your point. 
