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I get it that the etiquette is for the man to pay for the first couple of dates but when is it appropriate to start splitting costs 50/50? Is the 3rd date good? If we go out for the 3rd or 4th time and she still expects me to pick up 100% of the tab how exactly would you interpret this?
In my last relationship I picked up the bulk of the expense for 2 years, I don't regret it as I had great times with her and it was not forced upon me, I spent it willingly, however given that I am a bit behind on my financial goals I need to start saving more now and cut back spending.
The thing is that I am an Engineer and women automatically assume that means I have $$$ so they just don't even bother to offer anything even after the 3rd, 4th or 5th date... the attitude is "this guy has money so he should be paying"
Dating in a big city can get frightfully expensive and in this economy even those with a good job have to economize.
If it's the beginning of a genuine relationship, it's really a non-issue.
I've dated some very selfish men. To me, a man who doesn't pay, isn't a man I want to be with. It's not because I want something from him, but it's indicative of who he is and what he thinks of me and the relationship. It sets the tone of the relationship.
If you want me to pay, then we're just friends. If I'm paying my own way and/or yours, and we're not exclusive, then you're not getting sex. That's the bottom line and hard truth from me.
If I go out with you on a third date, then I really like you. But if that's the time when you start hinting that you want me to pay for dates, then I won't be seeing you a 4th time. That being said, I don't do "expensive" dates until a relationship is established. As in exclusive.
So yeah. You have all these guys posting on CD crying gold digger, and wondering why they can't find a date. But on the other hand, they choose women who would accept a full dinner from a stranger. I don't and I don't know many women who would, unless she really is just a user with no real intent of establishing a meaningful relationship.
Call me crazy, but I'm not going out with a guy for a one on one activity unless I already like him on some level.
Even if the guy pays for the first date doesn't mean he would prefer not to. Believe it or not I've paid for first dates. I've paid for second and third dates. I didn't make a fuss about it to the woman but I know there are more women who think like you than women who think like me.
Then why wouldn't he take her offer to pay seriously, then? If a woman offers, and her date is insistent that she put her wallet away, what is she supposed to do? Make an unpleasant scene?
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Originally Posted by Khohf
One girl that was nice enough to go on a date with me (sarcasm) had the courtesy to tell me that she was moving to another state in a couple weeks. That was after the third date...after she never once even made an attempt to pay. After each date she would tell me how wonderful of a time she had but obviously she knew she wasn't going to be around for the long run yet she had no problems just sitting and smiling at me when it came time to pay.
Then why did you continue to ask her out? I understand not wanting to be taken advantage of, no one likes that, but if a woman doesn't meet your expectations on a date, either make those expectations known or don't ask her out/agree to see her again. Problem solved.
If it's the beginning of a genuine relationship, it's really a non-issue.
I've dated some very selfish men. To me, a man who doesn't pay, isn't a man I want to be with. It's not because I want something from him, but it's indicative of who he is and what he thinks of me and the relationship. It sets the tone of the relationship.
If you want me to pay, then we're just friends. If I'm paying my own way and/or yours, and we're not exclusive, then you're not getting sex. That's the bottom line and hard truth from me.
If I go out with you on a third date, then I really like you. But if that's the time when you start hinting that you want me to pay for dates, then I won't be seeing you a 4th time. That being said, I don't do "expensive" dates until a relationship is established. As in exclusive.
So yeah. You have all these guys posting on CD crying gold digger, and wondering why they can't find a date. But on the other hand, they choose women who would accept a full dinner from a stranger. I don't and I don't know many women who would, unless she really is just a user with no real intent of establishing a meaningful relationship.
Call me crazy, but I'm not going out with a guy for a one on one activity unless I already like him on some level.
There is a whole lot of contradiction in here. It's a non-issue in the beginning but you don't want to be with him if he doesn't pay (sounds like it is an issue then). You'll go on a third date with him because you really like him but if he doesn't pay then he automatically isn't worth a fourth date (so you don't really like him)? No woman would accept a dinner from a stranger yet you just said if he isn't paying past the third date he's not worth your time (aren't you still a stranger on the first date at least)?
Then you go even further and make it clear that even by the third date you don't consider yourself exclusive yet. It's easy for you to test the field when you are requiring the guy to pay for everything until then. How can you say this isn't gold-digger mentality when you make it clear that if the guy isn't paying for you through the third date at least, you don't like him. You even said the third date means you really like his personality which is why you went on the third date but if he even hints that he would like you to cover just yourself (not even pay for him heaven forbid) his personality no longer matters. Isn't this just another way to say paying for you is more important that a great personality?
If paying to date women is indicative of who he is, what is this proving to you? Is it because women think that it proves he is generous? I'm not even saying I will never pay for the woman on a date. I just want to know she is with me for me and not because I pay for her. This issue seems to be a deal-breaker for women from the beginning however and they won't even get to know the man's true character. Women hate being generalized yet they freely generalize any man who doesn't pay for a first date as a cheap man with no manners who wasn't raised properly. This is why men think women need to be bought. If that offends you, stop requiring them to buy your time just to get to know you.
Here's another story just in case I'm giving off the impression that I'm cheap and never do anything nice for a woman. There was a different girl I was dating for a couple months. She always insisted that she pay for herself. This let me know that she went on dates with me because she liked me...not because I also gave her places to go. I knew she was about to go back to college to finish her degree. After only a couple months of being with her I purchased a laptop for her for her schooling. I knew she wouldn't get me a gift nearly as expensive and I wasn't expecting her to. But I did know she really needed a laptop for school so I got it for her.
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Originally Posted by fleetiebelle
Then why wouldn't he take her offer to pay seriously, then? If a woman offers, and her date is insistent that she put her wallet away, what is she supposed to do? Make an unpleasant scene?
Just look at what women post on here. A large majority of women expect it from the man. One of the females on here even said that she offers but is annoyed if she actually has to. So knowing that, why is a guy going to take her up on it?
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Originally Posted by fleetiebelle
Then why did you continue to ask her out? I understand not wanting to be taken advantage of, no one likes that, but if a woman doesn't meet your expectations on a date, either make those expectations known or don't ask her out/agree to see her again. Problem solved.
Just because it's not something I agree with doesn't mean I absolutely won't do it. And she made it seem like it was going well when she would tell me how much she enjoyed the date. She should have had the decency to let me know from the beginning that she knew she was moving away so soon and nothing was going to come of it.
If paying to date women is indicative of who he is, what is this proving to you? Is it because women think that it proves he is generous? I'm not even saying I will never pay for the woman on a date. I just want to know she is with me for me and not because I pay for her. This issue seems to be a deal-breaker for women from the beginning however and they won't even get to know the man's true character. Women hate being generalized yet they freely generalize any man who doesn't pay for a first date as a cheap man with no manners who wasn't raised properly. This is why men think women need to be bought. If that offends you, stop requiring them to buy your time just to get to know you.
One reason that many of us like when men pay, is because it takes out some of the ambiguous-ness in today's dating world. Many guys like to stay in the pseudo hanging out zone for a while. After "hanging out" it isn't clear if dating is actually happening.
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Just look at what women post on here. A large majority of women expect it from the man. One of the females on here even said that she offers but is annoyed if she actually has to. So knowing that, why is a guy going to take her up on it?
Apparently you don't think people can be gracious when doing something they don't like. For me, paying for myself is an indicator it is not a date.
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Just because it's not something I agree with doesn't mean I absolutely won't do it. And she made it seem like it was going well when she would tell me how much she enjoyed the date. She should have had the decency to let me know from the beginning that she knew she was moving away so soon and nothing was going to come of it.
So you can't go on a date to have fun and conversation?
One reason that many of us like when men pay, is because it takes out some of the ambiguous-ness in today's dating world. Many guys like to stay in the pseudo hanging out zone for a while. After "hanging out" it isn't clear if dating is actually happening.
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Originally Posted by jade408
So you can't go on a date to have fun and conversation?
Jeez, more contradiction...
You don't want to pay because then it's just hanging out according to you. In my instance, it was obviously just hanging out because she knew she was moving and it would lead to nothing. I'm supposed to pay to show that my intentions are beyond just hanging out but if the girl only wants to hang out I'm still supposed to pay because we had a good time? Absolutely no responsibilities of the woman other than being there, as if she's doing me a favor?
It sounds more and more like women are cheap but give excuses as reasons.
"It shows that he is interested". No, agreeing to the date shows that he is interested. Why does a man have to go above and beyond just to show he is interested when a woman feels like simply by showing up she is doing her part?
"If I pay for myself, then it feels like we are just friends". What is wrong with this? You can't go on a date to have fun and conversation? Aren't we trying to become friends and hang out before we decide it even could be more than that?
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Originally Posted by jade408
Apparently you don't think people can be gracious when doing something they don't like. For me, paying for myself is an indicator it is not a date.
Then help me out. If a man has to pay to prove that it is a date with romantic intention and not just hanging out, how does a woman prove it's a date with romantic intention?
Whether we like it or not, we live in a capitalistic country, where money signifies power.
Whoever pays, is displaying power. If both are paying, both are sharing the power. That means that neither has power over the other, neither controls the other, neither dominates. Both, the man and woman, have an equal standing.
If a man wants to have a traditional relationship, i.e., to play the traditional manly role, it's going to be a bit difficult for him if his woman is paying her way and shares the power in the relationship.
I don't and I don't know many women who would, unless she really is just a user with no real intent of establishing a meaningful relationship.
As I said earlier, we don't mind spending on women we actually like...I know I spent more than I care to remember on my ex and I don't regret spending the money on her even though we broke up because I genuinely cared about her.
My gripe is with spending money on women we may not even like. Women who we invite for a drink and then she starts ordering multiple rounds and also from the food menu... happened to me on many occasions. Downright rude! That takes away from the budget we would like to use on women we want to pursue With online dating it's impossible to know you like someone until the 2nd date at least, hence the first two dates be very low key to establish chemistry. I think that is fair enough.
I offer to split sometimes and if you say yes, then I assume we are in the friend zone. I don't do that too often but I do it if I know I have no interest in the guy anyway.
Otherwise I don't usually pay for dinner or thing like that but I do buy a coffee or a drink now and then. I was just raised that the man pays, I'm not stingy, just traditional. I have no problem cooking a meal or something like that instead.
Jeez, more contradiction...
You don't want to pay because then it's just hanging out according to you. In my instance, it was obviously just hanging out because she knew she was moving and it would lead to nothing. I'm supposed to pay to show that my intentions are beyond just hanging out but if the girl only wants to hang out I'm still supposed to pay because we had a good time? Absolutely no responsibilities of the woman other than being there, as if she's doing me a favor?
It sounds more and more like women are cheap but give excuses as reasons.
"It shows that he is interested". No, agreeing to the date shows that he is interested. Why does a man have to go above and beyond just to show he is interested when a woman feels like simply by showing up she is doing her part?
"If I pay for myself, then it feels like we are just friends". What is wrong with this? You can't go on a date to have fun and conversation? Aren't we trying to become friends and hang out before we decide it even could be more than that?
Then help me out. If a man has to pay to prove that it is a date with romantic intention and not just hanging out, how does a woman prove it's a date with romantic intention?
The problem is that you think all dates need to lead to a relationship, instead of thinking of them as a fun evening out. So for you, if the date isn't leading to a girlfriend, it isn't worth your time. Hanging out and dates are not the same thing.
As for the guy paying to help differentiate things? You don't hang out with women because you like them, but not romantically. I have had plenty of guy friends over the years where hanging out was normal. I enjoy spending time with them, but there is no expectation or desire to start making out with them. That's hanging out. The under 30 set seems to want to skip definitions and have more casual interactions, so they all hang out in a group. You never know who is paired up.
Go dutch right from the start, this isn't 1950 anymore. Women are always reminding men how empowered and independent they are since the 1970's.
You cannot claim as such when expecting men to pay the way.
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With online dating it's impossible to know you like someone until the 2nd date at least, hence the first two dates be very low key to establish chemistry. I think that is fair enough.