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Your points are totally valid.
Too bad your first replies made it sound like you were saying something quite different.
Shake??
Shake? Were we arguing?? Bearing in mind that the origin of the thread was pushing a woman to have sex, and that is to what I was replying, I continue to say don't do it. Young men are stupid and probably will. Hopefully we can move our culture there. But so far, we have not. Rape culture and actually staggering rape statistics continue to exist. The example of my husband was to show how it can be So Much Better Than That. If he was faced with a No but let' just keep teasing, he would (and has) walked away. That is a Good Man. Let's be fair though. He once was a young and stupid man and DID push someone for sex. He regretted it for a very long time until he was able to forgive himself.
This thread is sorta in the vein of the Weinstein case.
It's 2017 and this stuff is still going on. LOL, I mean not sure why no doesn't mean no anymore.
What I don't get, and no one has explained, is if you're kissing and touching and whatnot and she wants to go no further, what is the big deal? A person who wants sex when the other doesn't has every bit as much ability to walk away, jack off if necessary, and move along.
I asked DH this once years ago, and then again recently as our eldest reached teen years. He said there is no big deal. A guy is either a douche or he isn't. And this is a guy who has no problem "just wanting sex".
I don't anymore but I'm going to tell a personal story on here that is very painful to me but as I'm finding out now, it's not unique either. I think most decent men have no idea that so many of us have similar stories and the baggage that goes with it and they think were overreacting to things.
I was 18 and was getting ready to start my first semester in college. I had just moved onto campus and school hadn't yet started and I didn't know anyone and was starting to get lonely so I went for a walk. A couple of guys called out a greeting and we started to talk so I went up and sat out on the porch with them and one went in and got me a beer and we had a nice conversation. I had another beer and started to get sleepy so I got up to leave but needed to use the bathroom and felt comfortable enough to do that. I was feeling really woozy at this point and when I came out he pinned me up against a wall and tried to get sex but I said no. He kept pestering me about it--pestered me hard and I was so relaxed I finally gave in. I woke up about 3 in the morning in time to hear his roommates say, "is that chick in there with him? He'll eff anybody!" I got up and put on my clothes and ran out, blaming myself the entire time and it took me a few days to realize that I'd been drugged most likely. The scary part was that I couldn't remember what the man looked like and I was so scared of running into him on campus.
This whole situation brought some of that back to me, which is probably why I'm more upset than it would seem someone should be. I started this thread to see if I was being over sensitive because sometimes I can be, but seems most, men and women, don't think I am.
I really hope that as more women come forward with this, that more men will understand that we're not trying to be difficult. We legit need to trust him and feel safe. Every single woman ever faces the threat of rape every day. The only way I can say it in a way that men can sort of understand is, imagine being in a prison cell with sex hungry dudes who are double or triple your size...that's pretty close to a woman's life every day. I had a similar traumatic experience myself recently, though I wasn't drugged. I can't imagine what that was like for you. But it shouldn't have to take a woman getting raped for a man to understand that no means no.
What I don't get, and no one has explained, is if you're kissing and touching and whatnot and she wants to go no further, what is the big deal? A person who wants sex when the other doesn't has every bit as much ability to walk away, jack off if necessary, and move along.
I asked DH this once years ago, and then again recently as our eldest reached teen years. He said there is no big deal. A guy is either a douche or he isn't. And this is a guy who has no problem "just wanting sex".
The difference here is that these people in the OP are well into their 50's as far as I know and this sorta behavior isn't just a couple of teens necking and the guy being young and giving young guys some benefit of lack of life experience and doing the right thing, these are older folks and for this guy to be a pressing as he is based on what the OP said is just bizarre to me. He's not some sex starved teen that can't control himself. This guy comes off like a real asshat and I even as a guy wouldn't entertain having him as a friend, let alone a BF. That is outside the scope really of what the OP asked so I won't go there too much.
Even young guys shouldn't be doing this stuff, I'm just saying that sometimes when we're young we make stupid mistakes. Not every young guy that pushes too hard is a bad guy at heart, just needs to get his head out of his butt and needs a good understanding that a girl/woman shouldn't be pressured.
The difference here is that these people in the OP are well into their 50's as far as I know and this sorta behavior isn't just a couple of teens necking and the guy being young and giving young guys some benefit of lack of life experience and doing the right thing, these are older folks and for this guy to be a pressing as he is based on what the OP said is just bizarre to me. He's not some sex starved teen that can't control himself. This guy comes off like a real asshat and I even as a guy wouldn't entertain having him as a friend, let alone a BF. That is outside the scope really of what the OP asked so I won't go there too much.
Even young guys shouldn't be doing this stuff, I'm just saying that sometimes when we're young we make stupid mistakes. Not every young guy that pushes too hard is a bad guy at heart, just needs to get his head out of his butt and needs a good understanding that a girl/woman shouldn't be pressured.
That seems fair. From the people who do seem to be supporting said pushing, I have yet to hear.
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