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Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length
Okay, what am I missing? Within the scope of this thread, I’ve been talking mainly the initiation of the relationship. My understanding is that anyone in the market has a baseline idea of what they’d be interested in, and the closer someone can get to matching that, in terms of appearance, personality, life situation, personal values, interests, etc., the more likely the seeker is going to be interested in them as a romantic prospect. If someone is too far off the mark in various areas, they’re not going to attract the interest of people who find certain qualities attractive. Is that not the case?
Not for me. You're looking at it like you're lining up check boxes. I can't speak for others, but that's never how I worked when entering a romantic relationship or having interest in someone that way.
It's about connecting with someone and having chemistry. Two people making a connection, and then exploring it. Sure, there are things that might bring you into more contact with people where this chemistry might occur, but in the end, its not like you're shopping for the best person to fill a want list of desired traits. That's just incredibly non... human.
Okay, what am I missing? Within the scope of this thread, I’ve been talking mainly the initiation of the relationship. My understanding is that anyone in the market has a baseline idea of what they’d be interested in, and the closer someone can get to matching that, in terms of appearance, personality, life situation, personal values, interests, etc., the more likely the seeker is going to be interested in them as a romantic prospect. If someone is too far off the mark in various areas, they’re not going to attract the interest of people who find certain qualities attractive. Is that not the case?
No it isn't. You're looking at it as an artificial magic formula. What you listed is important but the foundation starts with natural chemistry, connection, and attraction. All of those are variables and factors that are different for everyone and out of our control. You don't just suddenly become desirable enough for a relationship. I've met so many men that were considered conventionally attractive and had a lot in common with, but the romantic energy just wasn't there. A true relationship is about building with someone, being social, and making genuine connections with people by treating them as human beings and not items you pick out in a store.
It's not what he thinks it is. It probably should be closer to that and online dating was supposed to make it closer to that, but instead it's becoming a way to filter out people who don't seem superficially great off the bat. Which is most people. So here we are. [Is there anything I can say that is interesting and not just complaining?] I wonder if way back when, before options for many seemed endless, people who weren't connecting well were more inclined to blame their own lack of technique. For example, do people read how-to guides about conversation skills anymore?
Okay, what am I missing? Within the scope of this thread, I’ve been talking mainly the initiation of the relationship. My understanding is that anyone in the market has a baseline idea of what they’d be interested in, and the closer someone can get to matching that, in terms of appearance, personality, life situation, personal values, interests, etc., the more likely the seeker is going to be interested in them as a romantic prospect. If someone is too far off the mark in various areas, they’re not going to attract the interest of people who find certain qualities attractive. Is that not the case?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auraliea
No it isn't. You're looking at it as an artificial magic formula. What you listed is important but the foundation starts with natural chemistry, connection, and attraction. All of those are variables and factors that are different for everyone and out of our control. You don't just suddenly become desirable enough for a relationship. I've met so many men that were considered conventionally attractive and had a lot in common with, but the romantic energy just wasn't there. A true relationship is about building with someone, being social, and making genuine connections with people by treating them as human beings and not items you pick out in a store.
It's both for me. Attraction and chemistry are necessary, but the other components are vital for taking genuine interest beyond "He's nice to look at and I get warm fuzzy feelings." There needs to be a baseline for me. Just having romantic energy or whatever is not sufficient for developing a deep and lasting connection. I need substance, and there's a lot that goes into what that is for me. Others define relationship dynamic/compatibility/chemistry in their own way. I experienced crazy chemistry and attraction with one particular guy I dated for a brief period. We clicked in some ways, but it wasn't quite the level of compatibility that works best for me. The situation wasn't right due to circumstances, but yeah, there was a good chance it wouldn't have progressed far even if things were aligned.
My best relationships have always had a mix of chemistry, attraction, compatibility, and a deep connection. Those connections were genuine and deep, and I screened and filtered for the criteria I desired.
My point is this: Some people are blessed with good looks, sparkling personalities, sharp wits, smooth charm, comic ability, adventurous spirits, musical or lyrical ability, etc. No one has all of these qualities of course, but most people have enough of them to be considered attractive by other people who value their unique set of traits. No one is guaranteedany of those traits, though. It stands to reason that there are individuals who have few enough of those traits that most other people would consider them to be unattractive in many different ways.
I've always been of the opinion that we all got something in rolling our genetic dice, but perhaps you are right. I got some of the traits on your list, but what if somebody as none of the above? IDK. (I got average looks, but I'll take that plus my engineering talent in preference to really good looks. My engineering talent gave me my career.)
I'd suggest working on one's personality. Work out at a gym. Develop positive traits you don't need to be born with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length
Look, I'm trying to make sense of my life and my life experiences. In my nearly 34 years of life I have almost exclusively been ignored by women. For many years I believed it was because there was something wrong with me, that I didn't deserve to be loved or accepted; that was something that daily bullying taught me when I was very young.
I can't explain that. Obviously it's some combination of who you are and what you are.
You mentioned daily bullying. (I got that some as a child.) I think that could be a major vein to mine with your therapist if you have not already done so. Bullying is intimately tied in with self confidence and other personality traits. This might be part of what is causing your problems today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length
It's taken me a lot of introspection, reprogramming, and therapy to get to a point where I can say "I deserve to be loved and accepted." But, I'm not loved and accepted. Not romantically. Why? That's cognitive dissonance for me, and I hate cognitive dissonance. And the best answer I can come up with is, I'm just not there yet. Haven't developed enough traits in myself that would tip the scales towards "acceptably attractive." That's where the "earned" stuff came from.
Nobody likes cognitive dissonance. It presents a problem that cannot be solved. It bugs you until you solve it.
You do deserve to be loved an accepted. The problem is that's a goal, not a guarantee. It requires work (or luck) to get there. You don't just get inducted simply because you deserve it.
I don't know how much attention this will get. I saw it floating around on the Internet weeks after its release and after I'd made a claim that sounded a little crazy to me, that up to 20% of young people are being completely shut of sex and relationships. To me, it's major news, the type that belongs on TV, that the dating scene truly is as bad as many people have been saying.
Technology turns them into zombies who can't have real life relationships...so even when they desire them, they are socially unable, then eventually, that grows into preferring porn, blowup dolls, etc...
"Work on your personality" is a vague suggestion that often angers listeners. Because it comes across as presumptive, insulting, and impractical. If that is part of the problem, do what exactly and how? With the social scene appearing to strongly favor some personality traits over others and no road to Rome so to speak, some people are giving up. That said, sometimes working on personality is necessary, not only for dating.
"Work on your personality" is a vague suggestion that often angers listeners. Because it comes across as presumptive, insulting, and impractical. If that is part of the problem, do what exactly and how? With the social scene appearing to strongly favor some personality traits over others and no road to Rome so to speak, some people are giving up. That said, sometimes working on personality is necessary, not only for dating.
I had to read your last sentence twice, because it changes your statement a lot.
I've said that to CD member today who gave a list of nice traits he didn't have. I suggested to work on things you don't have to be gifted with.
The simple fact is that if a man is a "nothing" man and has no attractive traits, then why should he expect anything other than a "nothing" woman? All they would share together is robot-like sex.
I think women who have given up probably like cats and TV a lot. Their male counterpart probably likes dogs and gaming. They should have a dating site for "nothing" people. No profiles necessary. Just state maximum distance and sexual preferences.
If a person has no personality why would they need an OLD profile? Actually that is my assumption in reading profiles is that no profile means no personality, just looking, or "this was a bad idea and I left the site 6 weeks ago."
"Work on your personality" is a vague suggestion that often angers listeners. Because it comes across as presumptive, insulting, and impractical. If that is part of the problem, do what exactly and how? With the social scene appearing to strongly favor some personality traits over others and no road to Rome so to speak, some people are giving up. That said, sometimes working on personality is necessary, not only for dating.
I agree.
I worked within the submarine community. Which is loaded with a high percentage of really smart men, but a lot of them are very stunted socially [they drool, or pick their noses while talking, etc]. On my last boat we had a crewman who knew everyone's license plate numbers, but he could never remember anyone's name.
Men who are extremely good with numbers, but if you told them to "Work on their personality" would not have any idea of what you are saying.
Quoting PI to the 47'th digit is a neat skill, using it in a sentence is even better, but it will not get you a date.
I can explain the math formulas for navigating using gravity vortexes, but that repels ladies. It does not attract them.
What I do find helpful in the last decade is the emergence of 'nerd females'. Which simple did not exist in the '70s, or '80s.
I had to read your last sentence twice, because it changes your statement a lot.
I've said that to CD member today who gave a list of nice traits he didn't have. I suggested to work on things you don't have to be gifted with.
The simple fact is that if a man is a "nothing" man and has no attractive traits, then why should he expect anything other than a "nothing" woman? All they would share together is robot-like sex.
I think women who have given up probably like cats and TV a lot. Their male counterpart probably likes dogs and gaming. They should have a dating site for "nothing" people. No profiles necessary. Just state maximum distance and sexual preferences.
If a person has no personality why would they need an OLD profile? Actually that is my assumption in reading profiles is that no profile means no personality, just looking, or "this was a bad idea and I left the site 6 weeks ago."
Probably true about women with cats and TV. Men, the gaming part, I guess. Once upon a time, a big personality wasn't a prerequisite for companionship.
Anyway, I was making a general point about personality advice. But even looking at that list, how much of the traits can be developed? Sense of humor always has room for improvement, and lyrical ability can be worked on through writing but for example Metallica lyrics probably won't help seduce a woman. Some other areas cross over into conversation skills, which is a personality gray area, and the rest is about fundamental wiring, such as pause-to-check. When I think of personality traits that are fairly malleable, I think of things like bitterness and impulse control that usually require counseling. People can will their way to being significantly more agreeable, to name one that's easy to work on, but agreeability in itself isn't sexy.
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