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Some overachievers had it instilled in them by demanding parents-relatives. I know a guy who grew up and no matter if his school grades were 98, the parents would rant that it wasn't always 100 and make him feel insufficient.
Growing up surrounded by people who could never please themselves may give them a complex -- can never be good enough. So they always try harder. You could walk water and heal Cancer and still never be "worthy" of some people, who you happen to care about.
What makes you think that over achievers do not have spiritual balance? Unless your categorizing them as the ego-driven ultra competitive types. Nothing wrong with setting high goals and trying to achieve them. The country would be in better shape if more tried this approach rather than waiting for someone to give an opportunity.
I think the key word is "over". Having goals and working hard to achieve them is great....becoming obsessed and engulfed with them so that you have no time to really enjoy life and lose track of priorities (ie. family, spirituality, etc) is when it stops being a good thing. I suppose it is all in your definition, but based on the first post I took over-achiever to mean someone who has lost balance.
Agreed, but you have to assess each case as an individual. On the surface, it may appear that way, but personality or circumstances could have put them there. And it doesn't mean that they aren't aware of life and God.
I know that I just came out of an industry where you worked like a crazy man from Nov-Feb, and as you got more experience, that period of time extended to longer periods. During that period, I would neglect almost everyone and everything, except God. I even would sacrifice my health, by not eating well.It wasn't until I left that job that I got to see that there was more to life than the job. As much as I liked the work, it was killing me. Once I left, so much fell into place, that while I may miss the pace and atmosphere, I love that fact once I log off my laptop, work stops. It doesn't follow me home through my crackberry.
You have the person that is over achieving working multiple jobs or maybe taking a bunch of classes, maybe its volunteer work. You get the idea.
Then you could have a slacker type of person, does not work much, lazes around the house, doesn't "contribute" much to society. Again you get the idea.
I think both of these people could be just as screwed up and not dealing with the world around them. Both are denying life, and both aren't spiritually aware of themselves and their relationship to the "Source", "One life" "God", whatever label you want to apply.
You're absolutely right, they can be flip sides of the same coin, and at the root have the same problem. It's like overeating and anorexia, they are at the root the same thing, an eating disorder, and the treatment is the same.
A workaholic (what you may be calling an overachiever) is every bit as much an addict as the person who watches TV all day.
And I also agree with you that a very effective treatment or cure involves plugging into a Spiritual source. That's why 12-step programs are so effective, they provide a spiritual solution, and it works.
Over achievers are generally people with hard to attain goals that they do attain. Nothing wrong with that. Sets a good example.
Overachievers are often times workaholics and while they may get accolades for their many achievements, they are also often emotionally crippled, and are addicts just the same, and just as unhealthy to be around. An addiction can show up as drugs or alcohol or food or shopping or work. Same disease, different drug of choice.
Not all "high achievers" are addicts, but a workaholic is an addict, and oftentimes it is a sickness that is "encouraged" or "praised" in various ways by greedy employers and an overly competitive set of values.
I've been thinking about various types of people and how our society interprets their actions. Especially western cultures.
You have the person that is over achieving working multiple jobs or maybe taking a bunch of classes, maybe its volunteer work. You get the idea.
Then you could have a slacker type of person, does not work much, lazes around the house, doesn't "contribute" much to society. Again you get the idea.
I'm probably going to get slammed by people who aren't going to understand what I mean, but here goes.
I think both of these people could be just as screwed up and not dealing with the world around them. I mean obviously the slacker is screwed up, but how can you say that about the over achiever.
Both are denying life, and both aren't spiritually aware of themselves and their relationship to the "Source", "One life" "God", whatever label you want to apply.
The problem is in our culture the over achiever isn't recognized as a problem. Before everyone jumps my butt about this, I'm saying in general, all situations could be different.
Am I way off base here or do you feel me?
You know, Chow, I usually like your posts. But this one, I have to call "baloney" on. Because there's a subtle danger in this kind of thinking, a buried conceit in that anyone who works substantially less or more than you do has their priorities out of whack. As if watching the television, going out bar-hopping with friends, or hitting the beach makes one more spiritually attuned.
There's really nothing terribly spiritual about working a forty-hour work week. I would argue that having such passion for the work you do to the point of working longer hours is spiritually far more fulfilling than knocking off at 5 p.m. and heading home to watch the Simpsons. After all, doctors, executives, and other professionals must work longer and harder hours, but they typically find their jobs very rewarding. And to indulge in facile pop psychology and petty critiques of someone who achieves a lot smacks of envy.
Others on this thread also imply that anybody who works harder than the average bear is really nothing more than a drone who is running from something. That the person who volunteers is really depriving himself of self-fulfillment, or is running from some sense of inadequacy. Again, I would offer that this person is really the one who is spiritually alive by giving more of him- or herself to others rather than not doing much at all outside the humdrum business of earning a living. To me, this is much more joyous living than staring at the walls of a cubicle, waiting for the clock to reach quitting time.
Now, mind you, I might be described by some as an overachiever. I built and sold a business, consult for clients scattered across the country, write books, sail, play the drums, aid and advise charities, sit on a board, read a ton, blah, blah blah. But I have time for my children, my life, and my friends. I simply believe that time perched in front of the boob tube is time wasted, and time is the stuff that life is made of. In fact, after several years of working 60- and 70-hour weeks, I'm at a point in my life where I only have to work 25-to-30-hour weeks on behalf of my clients. So was my time working long, long hours worth it spiritually? I would emphatically say, "Hell yes."
So, while my life story is hopefully only half over, I like the idea of getting to the end of my days and feeling that I didn't waste the gift that is my life. For, to me, a full life is a fulfilled life. And I really don't make any apologies for it.
You know, Chow, I usually like your posts. But this one, I have to call "baloney" on. Because there's a subtle danger in this kind of thinking, a buried conceit in this that anyone who works substantially less or more than you do has their priorities out of whack. As if watching the television, going out bar-hopping with friends, or hitting the beach makes one more spiritually attuned.
There's really nothing terribly spiritual about working a forty-hour work week. I would argue that having such passion for the work you do to the point of working longer hours is spiritually far more fulfilling than knocking off at 5 p.m. and heading home to watch the Simpsons. After all, doctors, executives, and other professionals must work longer and harder hours, but they typically find their jobs very rewarding.
Your argument also implies that anybody who works harder than the average bear is really nothing more than a drone who is running from something. That the person who volunteers is really depriving himself of self-fulfillment. Again, I would offer that this person is really the one who is spiritually alive by giving more of him- or herself to others rather than not doing much at all outside the humdrum business of earning a living.
Now, mind you, I might be described as an overachiever. I built and sold a business, consult for clients scattered across the country, write books, sail, play the drums, aid and advise charities, sit on a board, read a ton, blah, blah blah. But I have time for my children, my life, and my friends. I simply believe that time perched in front of the boob tube is time wasted, and time is the stuff that life is made of.
So, while my life story is hopefully only half over, I like the idea of getting to the end of my days and feeling that I didn't waste the gift that is my life. For, to me, a full life is a fulfilled life. And I really don't care if somebody thinks I'm an overachiever or not.
I agree with your posting here.
I'm not explaining myself properly I think. I'm talking about lack of balance and the dysfunction behind people who are compulsively over anything. Workaholics, alcoholics, fill in the blank. Another point was that in our society the said person who is a compulsive overachiever is looked upon positively, yet they maybe not be a healthy well rounded individual.
Yes on the surface my post could come off as an excuse for not striving for achievement. How I feel is further from the truth. I believe in being grounded you can actually achieve more if you are in touch with the higher power whatever that my be, not necessarily religion per se.
Balance is the subtle undertone of what I so ineffectively was trying to get at.
I'm talking about lack of balance and the dysfunction behind people who are compulsively over anything. Workaholics, alcoholics, fill in the blank. Another point was that in our society the said person who is a compulsive overachiever is looked upon positively, yet they maybe not be a healthy well rounded individual. Balance is the subtle undertone of what I was trying to get at.
Chowhound you are right on the money, doing a lot is not a mark of anything except the ability to fill time and stay busy, which often times is a person unwilling to go within and grow internally.
we are "human beings" not "human doings"
a lot of people are really uncomfortable with "being" as in being alone, being with their thoughts and feelings, being with themselves in the stillness, so they fill up their lives with a lot of busy-ness and activities and people and beat their breasts and say since they DID a lot then they ARE alot. A person is not their achievements.
It's way easier to focus on stuff "out there" then to go within and do the internal work. Generally people who have to boast about all that they do and equate what they do with who they are, are really missing something inside, and are often times, as you say, not healthy.
I'm not explaining myself properly I think. I'm talking about lack of balance and the dysfunction behind people who are compulsively over anything. Workaholics, alcoholics, fill in the blank. Another point was that in our society the said person who is a compulsive overachiever is looked upon positively, yet they maybe not be a healthy well rounded individual.
Yes on the surface my post could come off as an excuse for not striving for achievement. How I feel is further from the truth. I believe in being grounded you can actually achieve more if you are in touch with the higher power whatever that my be, not necessarily religion per se.
Balance is the subtle undertone of what I so ineffectively was trying to get at.
Well, you're a pretty reasonable guy, so I wondered.
I think work can be one avenue where people go overboard. The same can be said for alcoholics, gamblers, heroin addicts, religious zealots and even people who camp out in front of the idiot box every night until midnight.
All these people have something in common. They believe their way of living is the best way to live, and they're ready to thunder their disapproval at the way others choose to live or think. I mean, ask any recovering boozer: They think EVERYBODY should go through a twelve-step program. In short, it's their way or the highway, and there's no moderation for them even in recovery.
a lot of people are really uncomfortable with "being" as in being alone, being with their thoughts and feelings, being with themselves in the stillness
This is essentially what I was driving toward. People can't be still within themselves. It gotten so bad that people have to occupy their minds every second with garbage. Look at all of the electronic "gadgets" blackberries, cell phones, the whole gambit. The local gas station has installed monitors that show you the news while pumping gas.
You can't sit there and be still for 2 minutes to pump gas, garbage and advertisements have to fill you're brain.
I work with a lot of younger guys and I'm seeing more and more how people can't concentrate and are losing themselves in "stuff"
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I'm saying in general, all situations could be different.
