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The women's movement in America began in the 19th century, and the CIA was not established until after WWII. How did that work?
Hi fleetiebelle,
That is true about the CIA who really can look at destroying the Mozambique socialist democracy in Iran as their first project.
The Rockefellers were however very busy in creating our educational system run through their influential network of foundations much earlier. It was called the General Education Board. Since it aimed to merely improve upon the serfdom of the underclass and John D was as ruthless as they come, I would be very concerned about their influence. As I stated before, tribalism weakens institutions and family is the basis of tribalism. The coroprate cartels wield power specifically through national instutuions. If I were a Rockfellar, I would certainly break up the family unit and move the society towards instuments under my control.
I think Aaron Russo ,the movie director, made this claim about feminism.
My point was not in the death toll. Innocent women die in wars all the time, fighting or as victims. Why dont you address the point that before feminism those women who were involved in battle were treated less than men and were often rebuked afterwards instead of given credit for their efforts.
Hi 2mares,
Do you have any historical references for this trend or is it simply a matter of you say it is so? 200,000 soviet women were decorated "Hero of the Soviet Union", the highest honor. Women in the US were praised for their work in the factories.
Historically such people who come to mind are Zenobia or Boudica and were very much appreciated for their martial success. The reason why there were not more is because civil society could produce few leaders. The barbarian Roman emperor Maximin is a perfect example how even the lowest of them can rise to such status via the military. He did so because there was no equal in combat to him. Women did not to make good soldiers and thus did not rise though the ranks. What appreciation could there be? Once again, we can only speak about the modern era and even still women on average do not make the best soldiers.
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Would you care to expand on that. What is your idea of the assumption of feminism?
Its very simple. Its a "movement", hence it moves. Reactionary movements almost always seek to exist and as early causes are taken into the mainstream, more extreme positions must be taken or the movement dies. "Feminism" has, in my opinion, radicalized at this point since they have taken positions of absurdity.
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I don't know why you alway go back to medieval times and status. the feminist movement didnt begin in the US until mid 1800. Women were denied the same legal rights regardless of status. Granted a wealthy women, by virtue of her husband, may have had a easier life than a poor man, but that did not grant her the vote, property ownership, entry into universities, etc. due only because of her gender.
Why? Because it is often viewed that women were oppressed until now. Its more simply that the society, and its culture, has trouble catching up to the new realities like they always do. Did we not also see that fathers rights over children were pale in comparison to women? Is it not being adressed now as we realised that bias?
Men as a whole did not hate or oppress women in particular. They had mothers and sisters. They simply did not have the resources to support every individual expression. Of course, after seeing a hundred woman not be able to pull a long bow, a bias is developed, and it is not worth the effort to allow that one woman who could to express herself.
Yes, there is culture clash that is difficult to understand and contend with. And yes, again, men are treated poorly as well. But, if women are going to play any kind of role in these countries, a voice is necessary. Afghanistan is an extreme example, but even places like Algeria are difficult for women.
I have a friend from grad school that is from Algeria. She will not return to her country. She's a physician and really has her act together, but she feels that she cannot "live" in her home country. For example, from time to time we would go for a beer and hang out. She told me that she would never do that in her home town due to a fear of violent reprocussions for being in a bar, without a male escort, etc. It's just mind blowing to me. She was also very timid (generally) and pretty much a scarred person from being raised and living there. It's sad.
Here's a woman that has her MD, and an MS in Chem. She will work here, pay taxes here, vote here (eventually), and contribute here - either medically, scientifically, or technologically.
If you are not a "Muslim adult male", I stress the "Muslim" part,, you are not treated equally. Their religion states that women are no more then servants. It's hard to fight something like that when the penalty for speaking out is death.
My ethnic stock is from half Balkan thus it was at the frontier of the Ottoman drive into the west. If one were not Muslim they were second class citizens at best. I know this very well. In many Muslim counties, their tribalism, which will maintains itself in their relatively incestuous practice of marrying their first cousins, will result in weak nation states. Any institutions that attempt to impose cultural influences tend to have little effect on tribalism. What we are dealing with is something far more than feminist issues which is again why I do not care for its divisive scope. There is a whole lot else going on.
I'm certainly not up to speed IRT muslim history, or tribalism. What I do know is that women in many of these countries do not have access to education, mobility, and respect of value. Whatever issues these may be, they are certainly feminist issues.
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Originally Posted by Gplex
If you are not a "Muslim adult male", I stress the "Muslim" part,, you are not treated equally. Their religion states that women are no more then servants. It's hard to fight something like that when the penalty for speaking out is death.
Indeed. We have come so far in the west, and it's easy to forget. I'm not saying that we should not address sexism and disparity; I'm front and center with western issues, but, again, compared to my friend, it was as if we are from different planets. I don't know what I would do, or how I would react, if I always had to be escorted by a man; if I had to worry about covering my head or to be careful where I glanced, etc.
When the tables turn? But I thought feminism was supposedly about equality....
Feminism is a supremacy movement, plain and simple. It is not about equality.
Feminism is about getting all the "good" rights traditionally enjoyed by men while shirking the responsibilites that men beared to preserve those rights while at the same time retaining traditional female protections. Now it's gone beyond that and demands special rights, advantages and protections for women.
Feminists play the "women as victims" complex when it suits them and the "women as strong, capable and independent" when it suits. That way they can gain and retain protections and advantages and gain rights without the responsibilities.
When the tables turn? But I thought feminism was supposedly about equality....
Feminism is a supremacy movement, plain and simple. It is not about equality.
Feminism is about getting all the "good" rights traditionally enjoyed by men while shirking the responsibilites that men beared to preserve those rights while at the same time retaining traditional female protections. Now it's gone beyond that and demands special rights, advantages and protections for women.
Feminists play the "women as victims" complex when it suits them and the "women as strong, capable and independent" when it suits. That way they can gain and retain protections and advantages and gain rights without the responsibilities.
I'm trying to figure how this plays out in my household - nothing comes to mind. I'll repeat, as a (western) feminist, I don't care about what you're doing (providing you're not hurting anyone), just stay out of my way. That is all I have garnered from the male and female feminists I know.
Don't forget they often get away with harassment, shunning, and hostility. Everybody thinks the female is the soft, gentle, and caring gender. What a bunch sheet. Have you seen the way women behave in corporate and public administration settings. They are like rabid dogs that have been starved for days.
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Originally Posted by th3vault
Feminists play the "women as victims" complex when it suits them and the "women as strong, capable and independent" when it suits. That way they can gain and retain protections and advantages and gain rights without the responsibilities.
You are one of the nice ones. And good for you. Stick to your values of being a nice person that stands for ethical and equal treatment.
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn
I'm trying to figure how this plays out in my household - nothing comes to mind. I'll repeat, as a (western) feminist, I don't care about what you're doing (providing you're not hurting anyone), just stay out of my way. That is all I have garnered from the male and female feminists I know.
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