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I think of times I watched my children playing. I could set a box of cookies down near them and sit back and watch their reaction. I knew they would go to the box and get cookies out. I know what they did, I saw what they did, but I did not make them do it. They chose on they own freewill.
God know what is before us, he knows our discision but he does not make us choice.
Revelation 3:20
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.
He knocks at the door, but we must hear, we must act, we must open the door, and then he will come in. He does not force himself on us.
Deuteronomy 22:7
You may take the young, but be sure to let the mother go, so that it may go well with you and you may have a long life.
They were told to obey and they would have a long life, if you did not obey it is obvious that the opposite would happen, a shorter life...
1 Samuel 19:11
Saul sent men to David's house to watch it and to kill him in the morning. But Michal, David's wife, warned him, "If you don't run for your life tonight, tomorrow you'll be killed."
IF YOU DO NOT RUN ... David was told if he did not run he would be killed. This clearly states that David had a choice whether he lived or died the next day. It was his choice to make... God knew what he would choose but did not make him or set the time.
There are many other scriptures that show that God does not have a set time for us to die, we can clearly lengthen or shorten it.
Just as he has a plan for us, if we get off the road we may never get back on it. We may take a new path, or we may find our way back. When we find our way back it can be hard but he will supply the strength.
God, in His sovereign Will, knows exactly the time and date everyone will die. He knows us BEFORE we are conceived (Psalm 139). He is the beginning and the end and He alone is in control.
If we do not believe this, we do not believe in God's Sovereign and Divine purpose in our lives, as Christians.
Who could or would want to trust a God who is not in complete control of our lives? The comfort and peace this gives, especially in times of suffering (and I speak from experience, having had to part with my precious son earlier this year - a guy who loved God and dedicated his life to Christ) is awesome!
Well I personally find it hard to believe that children die every day from the hands of those who are suppose to love and cherish them while rich old men who are dirty and selfish live in manisons and never have a care in the world..not a act of god here, just awful human fate, where you are born and whom to, is what deteremines your fate, and if you grew up in a abusive home, and if you end up living and get a chance to move on in your life, then you have a chance to change things and create a good life for yourself...so no..god has nothing at all to with it, if he did, then the reverse would happen and no child would suffer or end up dead before he or she had a choice to live.
I think that with all our efforts to be healthy does make a difference, as well as if we are being unhealthy...BUT...God knows what we will do with our lives therefore he already knows the time and day of our passing. Not to mention the fact that many die suddenly in car accidents and such...he already knows the story before it unfolds. He has a plan for our life and our death and we cannot control the bottom line. He's holding the universe together, he's got our lives as well.
I think we have some control as to how long we live. There are always exceptions, but for the most part, preventative medicine and a healthy lifestyle prolongs life. I think God gives us free will and the intelligence to make choices for ourselves. We can squander that and live dangerously and hope for the best or we can try our best to live a life of moderation in hopes to prolong our lives.
Hi Perceiver, how can something be preknown without being predetermined? If God knows all before He creates and He creates knowing this, doesn't that predetermine what will happen? Thanks for sharing and God bless.
Hi Perceiver, how can something be preknown without being predetermined? If God knows all before He creates and He creates knowing this, doesn't that predetermine what will happen? Thanks for sharing and God bless.
Well first of all, to say that something is determined by something else is to say that it was caused by something other than itsef. For example, if my life is determined by something other than me then it is not me that decides what happens but something else. Now if something is predetermined that means that before it ever existed the decision was made about it by something other than itself.
In life human beings make decisions. God does not decide for them (which is what predetermination means) he only knows what they will decide.
Imagine a world in which the deepest wishes of atheists were real and there was no God. Now imagine that there is time travel in this world (time machines etc). Imagine that you went back in time to some previous event that you knew the result of already. As you stood there watching it happen, would you be predetermining it?
Perhaps you might say it is different in the real world where God is because he also created things.
But if we are talking about the creation of a being with free will then it would be no different from giving birth. lol every mother knows that they don't control the behavior of their babies even though they give birth to them. God has birthed us but since we have free will he does not control our wills or our lives...without permission, we make the decisions. (lol, I know that's a controversial statement in some Christain circles but it is still true as ever).
Last edited by Perceiver; 12-24-2007 at 03:18 AM..
haha he he--I think that for a Christian we are on a mission for God and we are here for whatever time God alots for that mission-imho of course---can God extend your life of course....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perceiver
lol every mother knows that they don't control the behavior of their babies even though they give birth to them. God has birthed us but since we have free will he does not control our wills or our lives...without permission, we make the decisions. (lol, I know that's a controversial statement in some Christain circles but it is still true as ever).
I didn't realize that this was such an old thread until I saw my old friend de calvo's post.
I agree very much with arguy. I beleive that our purpose on this earth is to bring God glory. We could do this in a day...it could take us a lifetime. I've been thinking more about death lately, and how some of us seem to be taken before our time. I have started to realize that death, like all of life, is not 'our time', it is God's time. Little Parker was taken just shortly after his 2nd birthday. A life that in our time seems all too short. But Parker's life was spent bringing God glory. You know the saying..."only the good die young"... I believe that we each of a purpose and once that purpose has been served, we will meet our Maker. I can only hope that when that day comes for me, I will hear the words, "Well done good and faithful servant".
Well first of all, to say that something is determined by something else is to say that it was caused by something other than itsef. For example, if my life is determined by something other than me then it is not me that decides what happens but something else. Now if something is predetermined that means that before it ever existed the decision was made about it by something other than itself.
Quote:
In life human beings make decisions. God does not decide for them (which is what predetermination means) he only knows what they will decide.
But if God knew what decisions we would make before He created us and He creates us knowing that we will make those decisions, then I believe that He has predetermined that we make them. We would not make the decisions unless He brought us into existence.
Quote:
Imagine a world in which the deepest wishes of atheists were real and there was no God. Now imagine that there is time travel in this world (time machines etc). Imagine that you went back in time to some previous event that you knew the result of already. As you stood there watching it happen, would you be predetermining it?
No, not if I did not create it.
Quote:
Perhaps you might say it is different in the real world where God is because he also created things.
But if we are talking about the creation of a being with free will then it would be no different from giving birth. lol every mother knows that they don't control the behavior of their babies even though they give birth to them. God has birthed us but since we have free will he does not control our wills or our lives...without permission, we make the decisions. (lol, I know that's a controversial statement in some Christain circles but it is still true as ever).
God birthed us but He sees all and knows all. A human mother cannot see all and know all. I don't believe that we have absolute free will. I do believe that we have wills, but if God sees beginning to end, then He knows exactly what will happen and He knew this when He created us. I do believe that God ultimately operates all things according to what He has purposed and that He does not act based on what we permit because He is Sovereign. I guess I don't understand why so many believe that the Sovereign God must have our permission before He does something. It is as if we have elevated our wills above God's will but according to Ephesians 1:1, God operates all according to His will. We are the creatures and He is the Creator. He is described at the Potter and we as the clay. There are too many scriptures which speak of His sovereignty over our wills and lives. For example, in the Christian scriptures, He says that one day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess Him. There will be no option as far as this is concerned, right? Thanks and God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 12-24-2007 at 11:08 AM..
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God's sovereignty
(lol, I know that's a controversial statement in some Christain circles but it is still true as ever).
