Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Looking at the first set of parents as given in story by the bible, we see Eve being the one who first sees or lusts after the fruit of the tree.
I mean, after being warned not to touch the fruit of that tree, Eve rather than Adam is the first to rebel.
Why so?
Well, if we look to see at what Eve represents in the union of heaven and earth, we see Eve representing the earth while Adam the heavenly spirit.
Now, Eve was not "inherently evil" but being the representative of the earthen vessel, naturally desires those things which are earthly, or lustful for the body.
And Adam, well, He only part took with Eve because they were as one.
Ref:Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
You and I, whether we are male or female, are a union of God's spirit (Adam) and Eve's earth (Flesh) make of us as one living soul.
We have the potential to do evil as well, but we don't do it because?
The Adam in us?
So now, what has the evil in mankind done to the goodness of God? Well, the Eve in them hath desired the lustful things of earth, to where the desires of earthly things, control and lordship over, has become their god.
Simple formula. Good in action = Godly attributes, while evil actions = selfish desires.
Blessings, AJ
This is just a spin to try make a ridiculous story seem believable.
Jesus died for our sins . . . but the word "for" in the phrase "died for our sins" should be interpreted as "because of." He died "because of" (for) our sins. There is no dispute. Jesus died and willingly endured the scourging and crucifixion of our barbarous ancestors to do so . . . because it was unavoidable without confirming their primitive beliefs about a smiting God. He did not want to confuse His message of a loving God . . . so He made it as unambiguous as possible. He did NOT pay God for anything . . . He made up for our deficiencies as a species (sinfulness) so we would not be eternally separated from God. His perfect consciousness (Holy Spirit identical with God's) did what we couldn't and makes eternal life possible for us ALL. He was reborn as Spirit (resurrected) within the collective human consciousness and is available to us as the Comforter (Holy Spirit) within our consciousnesses.
That Jesus died 'because' of our sins is quite right, I certainly have no debate with that.
Would I be right in thinking however that you balk somewhat at the idea of propitiation? For in taking that perspective don't you need to set aside half the NT (of which my above quotes are but a small sample) which clearly teaches throughout that Jesus died in our place deliberately, offering His own life as an atonement because of the separation between man and God caused by our sin?
I am sick and tired of chistians being so presumptuous as to assume that everyone believes as they do. When they speak to a large audience for example they may say that "jesus died for our sins" and "we give thanks to you" or "we are all sinners" or "jesus is our savior". Hold up! He did not die for any of my sins and is not my savior, so stop including me in your rhetoric. He is only the "savior" of those who believe, and since two-thirds of the world do not believe that jesus is god, then it is pretty presumptuous to speak an untruth which does not apply to the majority of people.
Yes.he did and wether you choose to believe it or not, is your choice..But you can't tell someone not to say that..when they in fact know that he did? They're not asking you to believe it, they are hoping you will believe it, they're telling you what he did..
Jesus isn't forced upon you, nor is God
I don't believe Jesus is God..I do believe he is Gods son.
The world lies in the wicked one..
That Jesus died 'because' of our sins is quite right, I certainly have no debate with that.
Would I be right in thinking however that you balk somewhat at the idea of propitiation? For in taking that perspective don't you need to set aside half the NT (of which my above quotes are but a small sample) which clearly teaches throughout that Jesus died in our place deliberately, offering His own life as an atonement because of the separation between man and God caused by our sin?
Propitiation is a misinterpretation of the nature of God as unambiguously revealed by Jesus. Jesus came to do what we were unable to do . . . achieve PERFECT "love of God and each other." True sacrifice has nothing to do with killing anyone or anything to appease God. It is sacrificing our selfish desires and controlling them when they are negative and unloving. Subduing our carnal impulses in favor of "love of God and each other" is the true sacrifice . . . especially in the face of extreme negative consequences from those others (as with Christ's scourging and crucifixion). No greater love has any man than to give his life for another. Christ smote no one despite the most horrendous treatment our barbaric ancestors were capable of. That is true sacrifice . . . NOT appeasing God. His perfect love is our gateway to God because it is within the collective human consciousness and available to us all. That is the significance of Him being 100% human.
The whole title of the thread is just screaming for me and almost any believer to say, "Jesus died for you!" and copy and paste it about a million times.
Like so:
Jesus died for you!!!
Jesus died for you!!!
Jesus died for you!!!
Jesus died for you!!!
Jesus died for you!!!
Jesus died for you!!!
Jesus died for you!!!
Jesus died for you!!!
Jesus died for you!!!
Jesus died for you!!!
Jesus died for you!!!
Jesus died for you!!!
Jesus died for you!!!
And I won't go on and on with it. Surely you must know basic psychology to realize that telling a person they can't do something is just begging them to do it anyways, right??
Jesus came to do what we were unable to do .>>>MysticPhD
Agreed!
Quote:
True sacrifice has nothing to do with killing anyone or anything to appease God.
True sacrifice will kill you! It did Jesus.
If then, Jesus, as God, were the only true sacrifice of which we ourselves could not achieve, we must then accept Jesus' sacrifice as our own to be justified.
Now let's clear up something here about Jesus' sacrifice verses the "No greater love has any man than to give his life for another".
If we were to give up our earthly life to support the life of another, it would be an honorable jester based on love one for another.
But that would only support the one life saved in the flesh.
Now, Jesus' sacrifice being the same jester of, love one for another, transcends this earthly life's condition, to the condition being of a spiritual nature, not touchable by human hands.
The condition of spiritual death changed to spiritual life here after.
Quote:
Christ smote no one despite the most horrendous treatment our barbaric ancestors were capable of.
If smote and consumed were of the same meaning, than yes, Jesus consumed all sin, or smote everyone's sins.
Quote:
His perfect love is our gateway to God because it is within the collective human consciousness and available to us all.
You have that right in that you are describing God's perfect righteousness in Jesus as our; as you put it quote " it is within the collective human consciousness" yet to be awakened.
Awakening in us that spirit is to declare the righteousness of God as our own means to our salvation.
Quote:
That is the significance of Him being 100% human.
And, if awoken, understanding that Jesus was 100% God as well.
I mean look at your argument: you said that quote "we were unable to do" and in the same sentence you said quote " Jesus came to do".
If Jesus were not God in the flesh then He'd be like us, "unable to do" for it would take the God component to achieve what we could not do.
What all does that do to our ego's?
It takes self out of the equation and offers our souls up to God's righteousness, thus reconciliation.
The groom has rendered the bride clean and spotless. Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Isa 49:18 Lift up thine eyes round about, and behold:all these gather themselves together, and come to thee. As I live, saith the LORD, thou shalt surely clothe thee with them all,as with an ornament, and bind them on thee, as a bride doeth.
Isa 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.
"he (God) hath clothed me with the garments (Souls of mankind) of salvation"..
"he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness" God righteousness on Jesus as the groom: Jesus as His bride, and Jesus' (groom) righteousness on us: the bride.
Mankind of itself can not achieve any spiritual gain without the righteousness of God.
The whole title of the thread is just screaming for me and almost any believer to say, "Jesus died for you!" and copy and paste it about a million times.
Like so:
Jesus died for you!!!
Jesus died for you!!!
Jesus died for you!!!
Jesus died for you!!!
Jesus died for you!!!
Jesus died for you!!!
Jesus died for you!!!
Jesus died for you!!!
Jesus died for you!!!
Jesus died for you!!!
Jesus died for you!!!
Jesus died for you!!!
Jesus died for you!!!
And I won't go on and on with it. Surely you must know basic psychology to realize that telling a person they can't do something is just begging them to do it anyways, right??
If I may change a few words to your sentences: "The whole title of the thread is just screaming for me and almost any believer to say, "Jesus died for me!" and believe it because you want to and not because you have to or because someone is telling you to.
Go on ahead and have fun with that, while I go on ahead enjoying my life.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
