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Looking at dogs as "lesser" beings or even filthy animals is quite common in the Middle East to this day. So, it doesn't surprise me that the Bible doesn't have one nice word to say about them.
Another meme found in the Bible.
Nothing beats humans' irrational fear of snakes, though.
No wonder i want nothing to do with the mystery book....
I think you need to re-read my brief post. I said "evil people are called dogs". I did not say the bible said "all dogs are evil".
Please don't put words into people's mouths that they have not said.
I think you need to re-read my brief post. I said "evil people are called dogs". I did not say the bible said "all dogs are evil".
Please don't put words into people's mouths that they have not said.
Umm, where did i say in my post that YOU said it?? If you READ my post, i said "bible", not you.
yet another ridiculous idea that it is God who has made men moral. why is it so difficult for us to accept that we may be moral just because we are - that it's not some divine gift from God.
that's right, because God is so moral and asks such morality of us. just look at the binding of Isaac. you're telling me such a moral God would just want to see how far Abraham would go?!
I suspect all the people who do not like dogs are cat people. I have always suspected a plot from the cat side of the world against the fine dogs of the world.
Yep, here goes the long-winded GCSTroop again with another diatribe.
I've recently had a conversation on the internet with a group of Christians asking me that if there is no God than how do we define our morals? How do we define what is right and wrong? Who sets the standard? I say WE, as humans do. And I'm going to explain why you don't need God to do it but I'd like to use an example in nature that I think most can relate to. DOGS!
Dogs, wolves, coyotes. I think everyone will agree that they are all very closely related. And even if you don't I think you'll agree with me that they are all pack animals.
What's amazing about dogs is that if you watch groups of them there is always an Alpha male. The Alpha male sets the standard for the rest of the group and the rest of the group abides by it. But, the Alpha male is still just a dog. He's just a little stronger, and maybe a little wiser. What's interesting is that by watching dogs or K-9 related species is that they seem to have their OWN moral values. They understand, by the reactions of their peers, what is right and what is wrong. God has had no influence over who becomes the Alpha Male. It's simply whichever male has been chosen by nature to be the Alpha. In other words, the Alpha male ALWAYS eats first. This seems to be something inerrantly true in the world of dogs. If another dog wants to eat first, one of two things will happen:
1) The Alpha Male will successfully defend it's territory and the imposer will either be cast from the pack or will now be deemed the "loser".
2) The Alpha Male will unsuccessfully defend it's territory and the imposer will become the Alpha Male and the former Alpha will now be deemed the "loser".
Either way, it is a set of morals that the dogs live with. They have set their own boundaries. They all KNOW, the Alpha Male sets the boundary.
So, do dogs have morals? Do they know what is right and wrong? I'm not sure, but they know what happens when they misbehave. God didn't give them a set of morals to live by. He didn't give them a biblical code in which to live their lives. Yet, they set standards all by themself. God doesn't pick which one is the Alpha male. It's just nature taking it's course. However, for the necessity of their own survival, dogs have adapted to live this way because that is what makes them thrive.
Well, what about our little domestic poochie woochie? Why are some dogs good and some dogs bad? It's not that some dogs are good and some dogs are bad it's that you have not shown enough dominance over your dog and he views himself as the Alpha Male. Even females will do it. If you do not correct your dog, he thinks he is the boundary setter. Therefore, he will pee on the floor when he feels like it, he will growl when you get close to his food bowl, and he will chew up the carpet. Because he THINKS he can. Yet, they know this based on OUR reactions to it. If you come home and find your mini-blinds chewed up the first thing a lot of people do is go to the dog and slap it for chewing the mini-blinds. Well, the dog doesn't realize what he did was right and wrong! He thinks that by laying down and taking a nap he's being accosted for it! He doesn't realize that you are slapping him for chewing the blinds. Therefore, it is imperative to correct the problem as it happens so the dog knows its boundaries. BASED ON YOUR REACTIONS, the dog felt that taking a nap was wrong and he was getting hit for it. Dogs perceive us based on our reactions. What happens when the dog is chewing the blinds and you give him a treat to take his mind off of it? Well, he thinks he just got rewarded for chewing your blinds!
So, we all set our own boundaries and standards of what is right and wrong. My parents did it without God and I live a perfectly normal life. I don't steal, murder or swindle because I know it's wrong. I don't need the fear of the law to stop me from doing it. I just know that it's wrong. Dogs are able to know what is right and wrong based on human reactions. I don't see why we are so different.
"Morals" can be a pretty ambiguous term. Some will say that two piece bathing suits are immoral, while others will look at more important things like murder.
I think that people have to make a code to live by in order to band together into a society. Without some rules, like no murder or theft, there can be no society, thus you have no security unless you are the Alpha, even then, your security is limited as there is always a stronger man, there is always a smarter man... there is always someone that is better than you at something.
Without rules, humans would live as another animal in nature.
Or in short, a social contract.
But this leaves me to a larger question: Do humans really even have morals?
When it comes to dogs and family values I agree with Sherlock Holmes' logic:
Quote:
A dog reflects the family life. Whoever saw a frisky dog in a gloomy family, or a sad dog in a happy one?
Snarling people have snarling dogs, dangerous people have dangerous ones.
Sherlock Holmes in The Adventure of The Creeping Man
and
Quote:
Dogs don't make mistakes.
Sherlock Holmes in The Adventure of Shoscombe Old Place
When it comes to dogs and family values I agree with Sherlock Holmes' logic:
and
I can also tell a lot about a person if a dog seems not to like them.
I know one person who dogs just seem to avoid, and actually will run from her at times. The dogs have it right too, she is bad to the bone. Don’t know how they know, but it is nice to have a heads up.
With Cats, I think they will avoid the nice people, and try to put you in Satan’s lap, than go off and laugh about it.
So right and wrong depends on the strongest individual of the pack?
What if the strongest individual is Adolf Hitler, would that make it right to kill all the Jews, homosexuals, and all the other people he did not like?
What if the South would have won the Civil war, would slavery then be correct?
Pol Pot was the pack leader for Cambodia and killed 1/5 of the people in Cambodia was he moral?
If might makes right that would mean that any strong man has the right to do anything to his weaker wife and kids that he wants to.
I am sorry but I don't believe that what is right changes every time a stronger person comes along. It was always wrong to hold slaves even when most of the planet had them. It has always been wrong to kill just because someone's parents came from the wrong country, and it is wrong to force a country back into the stone age by murdering all of the educated people like Pol Pot did even when he was the "pack leader" of Cambodia.
Man is the Only Animal that Blushes. Or needs to. ~Mark Twain, Following the Equator (1897)
Twain's pithy remark is right on, on the surface. Animals excluding humans do what comes naturally and instinctively. But there is research showing chimps to act deceitfully at times! So it may follow that the higher a creature's intelligence, the more flexibility it has to make behavioral choices like deceit--or to be fair, altruism and justice. I think there is a continuum of intelligence among animals, albeit with a huge leap from other apes to humans (most of 'em ). Evolution would imply such a continuum rather than some divine spark that gave humans intelligence, and no other creatures.
Even animals have, as you say, "moral" codes based on instinct and a certain amount of intelligent recall of what happens when Omega Dog challenges Alpha Dog. But humans have a rather different moral code than, say lions, who also have a social hierarchy, but obviously don't find it immoral to kill other animals for food. In fact male lions kill the cubs of other males in order to mate with the females. Not what we humans would consider "moral"!
Our human moral codes stem from the presence of primitive instinct (hunger, sex, fear, survival/xenophobia) modified by the sophisticated ability to reason. We figured out that it did not ultimately do us benefit to indiscriminately lie, cheat & steal, murder, etc. (Not that we don't still do it rampantly--we just have realized that it is not a good thing because it harms other humans, and if they do it to us, it harms us.) We all feel pain, grief, sorrow, frustration, despair, and other unpleasant emotions as a result of the above negative behaviors. So it made sense for us to codify some rules as we were going from small tribes to larger groups in which more strict rules are necessary.
Of course, despite the religious view that God had to be there to tell us what to do, (which is sort of humorous when you think about how old Yahweh actually behaved ), it's perfectly logical that we humans formed our moral systems. In fact, it's even a bit demeaning to our intelligence to insist that we couldn't figure this out without some deity!
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I have always suspected a plot from the cat side of the world against the fine dogs of the world. 
), it's perfectly logical that we humans formed our moral systems. In fact, it's even a bit demeaning to our intelligence to insist that we couldn't figure this out without some deity!
