Why bashing of Christianity is fine but lack of respect to Islam is No-No? (Buddhism, Revelations)
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For several days now I have been considering whether or not to post in this thread. I just decided. This is my personal answer to the original question. My answer is drawn from the perspective of one whose maternal grandfather was an ordained Christian minister, as one who was raised in a Christian church, and as one who still follows the teachings of Christ as he understands them. (Take careful note of the fact that I do not call myself a "Christian".)
Item One: The very way the original question is phrased -- binary, either-this-OR-that wording -- strongly suggests that it comes from an emotional rather than a thoughtful viewpoint. While understandable given the context, this only leads to arguments and strife.
Item Two: The original question is both based in, and calls for, sweeping generalizations that lump ALL Christians and ALL Muslims into single categories. Once again, this binary either/or categorization can only lead to arguments and strife.
Item Three: Let me be clear; I have no problems with either Islam or Christianity. I have SERIOUS problems with the beliefs, thoughts and actions of some people who claim to be part of one or the other of these great religions, and who have the temerity and gall to claim that THEIR way to practice [fill-in-the-religion] is the ONLY way. This is particularly true when their way flies in the face of what Christ and Mohammed actually taught.
To the Original Poster: First, as one who follows the teachings of Christ as I understand them, I reserve the right to question, and to strenuously object to, the practices of any "Christian" when they violate my best understanding of Christ's actual teachings. If you wish to call that "bashing", be my guest. But you'll have to take a number and stand in line. By the way, it is because of THESE people that I no longer call myself a "Christian." In my experience they have so subverted the term that it has no positive connotation among the general world population.
Again as one who follows the teachings of Christ as I understand them, I reserve the right to defend Islam, and individual Muslims, against any and all unreasoning, hate-filled, bigoted attacks, even if said attack comes from a self-proclaimed Christian individual or group. If you wish to call that "enforcing a no-no", be my guest. But again you'll have to take a number and stand in line.
Finally, I also reserve the right to question the practices of some people who proclaim themselves as Muslims when said practices violate Mohammed's teachings. I also reserve the right to defend Christ's actual teachings from unreasoning, hate-filled, bigoted attacks by any individual or group, including Muslims.
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Most, if not all, of the "Christian-bashing" you'll find on this Board is the direct result of personal experiences/confrontations with so-called "Christians" who do not behave as Christ taught. Sad to say, but most of them haven't the faintest, foggiest clue as to the vast differences between what Christ actually taught and how they actually behave. Unfortunately, for many of them, reality won't dawn until they're called before The Throne to explain their actions.
Regards,
-- Nighteyes (who follows the teachings of Christ as he understands them)
Last edited by Nighteyes; 06-14-2011 at 01:40 PM..
Because of the great differences in our ways of thinking, it is inevitable that we have different religions and faiths. Each has its own beauty. And it is much better that we live together on the basis of mutual respect and mutual admiration.-His Holiness the Dalai Lama
because of the great differences in our ways of thinking, it is inevitable that we have different religions and faiths. Each has its own beauty. And it is much better that we live together on the basis of mutual respect and mutual admiration.-his holiness the dalai lama
For several days now I have been considering whether or not to post in this thread. I just decided. This is my personal answer to the original question. My answer is drawn from the perspective of one whose maternal grandfather was an ordained Christian minister, as one who was raised in a Christian church, and as one who still follows the teachings of Christ as he understands them. (Take careful note of the fact that I do not call myself a "Christian".)
Item One: The very way the original question is phrased -- binary, either-this-OR-that wording -- strongly suggests that it comes from an emotional rather than a thoughtful viewpoint. While understandable given the context, this only leads to arguments and strife.
Item Two: The original question is both based in, and calls for, sweeping generalizations that lump ALL Christians and ALL Muslims into single categories. Once again, this binary either/or categorization can only lead to arguments and strife.
Item Three: Let me be clear; I have no problems with either Islam or Christianity. I have SERIOUS problems with the beliefs, thoughts and actions of some people who claim to be part of one or the other of these great religions, and who have the temerity and gall to claim that THEIR way to practice [fill-in-the-religion] is the ONLY way. This is particularly true when their way flies in the face of what Christ and Mohammed actually taught.
To the Original Poster: First, as one who follows the teachings of Christ as I understand them, I reserve the right to question, and to strenuously object to, the practices of any "Christian" when they violate my best understanding of Christ's actual teachings. If you wish to call that "bashing", be my guest. But you'll have to take a number and stand in line. By the way, it is because of THESE people that I no longer call myself a "Christian." In my experience they have so subverted the term that it has no positive connotation among the general world population.
Again as one who follows the teachings of Christ as I understand them, I reserve the right to defend Islam, and individual Muslims, against any and all unreasoning, hate-filled, bigoted attacks, even if said attack comes from a self-proclaimed Christian individual or group. If you wish to call that "enforcing a no-no", be my guest. But again you'll have to take a number and stand in line.
Finally, I also reserve the right to question the practices of some people who proclaim themselves as Muslims when said practices violate Mohammed's teachings. I also reserve the right to defend Christ's actual teachings from unreasoning, hate-filled, bigoted attacks by any individual or group, including Muslims.
====================================
Most, if not all, of the "Christian-bashing" you'll find on this Board is the direct result of personal experiences/confrontations with so-called "Christians" who do not behave as Christ taught. Sad to say, but most of them haven't the faintest, foggiest clue as to the vast differences between what Christ actually taught and how they actually behave. Unfortunately, for many of them, reality won't dawn until they're called before The Throne to explain their actions.
Regards,
-- Nighteyes (who follows the teachings of Christ as he understands them)
Glad to see that your mind is not closed to Jesus. I agree that many Christians give CHRISTIANS a bad name. All you have to concern yourself with is whether you are following Jesus' teaching as well as you can. God will see this and everything will be OK. I doesn't matter what mankind says or does, only what you do.
Wrong. The Deistic God then, just as today, is in no way shape or form the Christian or Biblical god. The Deist Founding Fathers (i.e the principle founders) rejected the miracles and divinity of Jesus and saw The Bible as absurd mythology rather than the word of any god. They founded this nation on the secular ideals of The Enlightenment, not on Christianity or The Bible.
You've been thoroughly indoctrinated into the "sunday school" revisionist history I was referring to earlier.
You are right about the Church of England though - our founders came here fleeing from CHRISTIAN nations. Not to establish one.
John Adams was a devout Christian, he was fundamental in the founding of our country and its founding documents...
That much I know, not from Sunday school either...
Item Two: The original question is both based in, and calls for, sweeping generalizations that lump ALL Christians and ALL Muslims into single categories. Once again, this binary either/or categorization can only lead to arguments and strife.
Item Three: Let me be clear; I have no problems with either Islam or Christianity. I have SERIOUS problems with the beliefs, thoughts and actions of some people who claim to be part of one or the other of these great religions, and who have the temerity and gall to claim that THEIR way to practice [fill-in-the-religion] is the ONLY way. This is particularly true when their way flies in the face of what Christ and Mohammed actually taught.
Well stated and summarized, Nighteyes. The problem I and many others, Christian and atheist, have with Islam is that, as a pretty accurate generalization, and independent from their specific practices and beliefs, is in their lack of a rational group response and behavior in the face of the organized hatred and aggressiveness on the part of their well-publicized and persistent radical behavior towards, well, the rest of the world. Since their venegeful, unreasoned and disruptive response is clearly not civilized, you have to conclude that their base religion may not be as well.
This is well established and documented, and it's reprehensible and felonious. What Christian group would tolerate, for example, a quietly whispered but serious gossip down at the church coffee klatch about bombing some other group, including innocent women and children? And yet, as a group, Muslims seem to turn the other cheek; witness their street behavior after 9/11. Reprehensible, yes. Defensible, no.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpsTN
Glad to see that your mind is not closed to Jesus. I agree that many Christians give CHRISTIANS a bad name. All you have to concern yourself with is whether you are following Jesus' teaching as well as you can. God will see this and everything will be OK. I doesn't matter what mankind says or does, only what you do.
Charles Sands
37129
Sadly, this post tends towards showing exactly where the lack of respect for any religion, comes from. Everything will be OK but only if you accept and follow ouridea of God. Otherwise, you will be condemned to hell.
Atheists are tired of being demonized as to their lack of belief, no matter how sincerely and honestly they come to their conclusions about both Christianity and it's lesser sub-set, Islam. It's just that, in fact, Muslims have proven themselves to be far more dangerous, vowing fierce, violent revenge on those who do not buy the big lie. The worst that Christians do is promise you an eventual flaming afterlife, not a public flogging, stoning, plaza bombing or televised beheading.
The simplistic suggestion that all we have to do is just change, is absurd and un-intelligent on so many levels. It would be like me suggesting to you that, without any careful thinking on the subject, you simply "become" an atheist because I tell you it's the right answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckinbalad
John Adams was a devout Christian, he was fundamental in the founding of our country and its founding documents...
That much I know, not from Sunday school either...
What exactly does this have to do with the OP's specific question, other than proselytizing out loud? You trying to start a fight about the religious intents of our founding fathers? Yes, they were avowed Christians (everyone was back then, else they and their families would suffer near-total social ostracization), but being rational and critical thinkers (apparently a lost art within the devout these days), they also saw the infinite wisdom of denying the means of forcing some repressive social blight on all of society via mandated behavioral requirements.
This "Stick in your Eye" approach seems to be your modus operandi, stuckinbalad. Tell me I'm wrong!
What Christian group would tolerate, for example, a quietly whispered but serious gossip down at the church coffee klatch about bombing some other group, including innocent women and children?
1. How about KKK meetings conducted in the church sanctuary?
2. How about Westboro Baptist Church's clearly planned and clearly sanctioned atrocious behavior at the funerals of our military veterans?
3. How about the advocacy and enforcement of mass suicide, including children and infants, in the Christian organization headed by Jim Jones, or the one headed by David Koresh?
4. For that matter, how about the advocasy, FROM THE PULPIT, of the complete extermination of American Indians by the Reverend John Chivington? This was the very same man who, as Colonel John Chivington, later led the troops that committed the Sand Creek Massacre. They killed and mutilated around 150 Indians who, just the way they had been directed by the white authorities, had gathered under a flag of truce. Two-thirds of those killed and mutilated were women and children. Many more were elderly.
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You see, Islam is no more defined by the actions you described than Christianity is defined by those I just described. Yours may be hypothetical (I have no way of knowing); mine are not.
Last edited by Nighteyes; 06-14-2011 at 06:32 PM..
Shibumi,
Please don't act like that. You are barging into the room and accusing me of prostyletizing while I was having a conversation in the corner with a few people people who said the founding fathers were not Christian...please follow my replies and the conversation before you accuse anyone of something they are not.
The stick in the eye approach you say I use is called "truth seeking"
Nothing more, nothing less.
I hate it when people try to pass off misinformation or untruths as truths...as was done in this post and in the other post in which you foolishly lashed out at my responses without completely understanding the topic or subject. I admit when I am wrong, as I did in that other post, but I am not doing anything other than seeking to clarify things that are false.
Because of the great differences in our ways of thinking, it is inevitable that we have different religions and faiths. Each has its own beauty. And it is much better that we live together on the basis of mutual respect and mutual admiration.-His Holiness the Dalai Lama
The Dalai Lama is definitely an optimist. The world has yet to crush his spirit, and he's an elderly man.
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