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Old 08-27-2017, 03:03 PM
 
10,505 posts, read 4,139,825 times
Reputation: 1193

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
you do realize this sounds like the cults who say don't go to the doctor

you are not giving good counsel when you tell people to avoid seeking help

doctors
counselors
therapists
12-step groups
psycholgists


are very different from talking to friends and reading books.

it is alarming that you do not see the difference and that you counsel someone to disregard their feelings.
I didn't take it that way either trap. I assumed she meant them also, its just that she posted friends, ourselves, and books. in person we get to be "cleaner" in being, well, clearer.


we are not alone, to me, means what's around you and in you. doc's included. Heck, i even include milli-mental atheists, I need to to toss at fundy theists so the regulars don't get hurt.
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Old 08-27-2017, 03:07 PM
 
6,637 posts, read 3,860,887 times
Reputation: 654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I believe the primary cause of hatred is ignorance people tend to fear what they don't understand and this fear manifests itself as hatred.

However there is a concept of justified hatred that runs counter to this rule, in which the more a person knows the more justified the hatred is.
Things such as child Molestation, Greed, Abuse, Prejudice.

Are there really things we are justified in hating or is it simply our inability to understand it? Does our hatred lessen with knowledge? Are there things and people we Really should hate?
I see it differently...always have.
I think that, "Hate cuz you don't understand", has always been obviously a bogus concept.
Who would "hate" something they don't have knowledge about? That doesn't make sense.
You have to, at the very least, understand that there is a factor about something/someone that you can't stand/tolerate to feel loathing/hatred for it/them.
How else could it be any other way?
You have to be familiar with something/someone to the degree that you know it/they, "rub you the wrong way", to such a degree that you detest it/them.

"Hate" is just a very strong dislike or lack of preference to the point of execration.
For Example: Even though I don't know why caviar tastes the way it does...I know that I "hate" the way it tastes, as I have knowledge of its flavor.
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Old 08-27-2017, 03:18 PM
 
12,456 posts, read 13,096,679 times
Reputation: 8893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
First, hating evil is not the same thing as hating a person. That being said...

Forever? Or beyond the reach of Christ within you?

I know you don't mean either of those things.
this is the part that is creepy Pleroo.
when you tell him what he means and what he doesn't mean.
when you tell him what he feels and doesn't feel.
when you tell him what he thinks and doesn't think.

that is behavior that is associated with "thought control groups" and it is a behavior that is "mired in darkness"

Mystic is a smart guy.
Mystic is an articulate guy.
he always has been and he always will be.

he is doing a great job speaking for himself.
he always has and he always will.

you are basically shutting down his thoughts and feelings because for some reason they are unpalatable to you and they make you uncomfortable.

i say bravo mystic. let him talk. he can do a much better job of stating what is bothering him, what he thinks, what he feels. when you silence someone, which is exactly what i see happening in this conversation, it is no different than a man speaking for his wife saying "what she means is this" and "i know you don't mean that."


i'll ask you the same question pleroo. you have spoken openly about your being previously in a "thought control group" and the steps you have taken to leave it. How many years of counseling, 12-step work, therapy, recovery have you spent? Or are you seeking to do it without that sort of help?
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Old 08-27-2017, 03:28 PM
 
15,025 posts, read 7,537,694 times
Reputation: 1974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
this is the part that is creepy Pleroo.
when you tell him what he means and what he doesn't mean.
when you tell him what he feels and doesn't feel.
when you tell him what he thinks and doesn't think.

that is behavior that is associated with "thought control groups" and it is a behavior that is "mired in darkness"
You're pretty funny, (not ha ha). You have been following Mystic around for weeks, berating him and telling him he's a horrible human being. Please don't try to tell me I am creepy.
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Old 08-27-2017, 03:32 PM
 
12,456 posts, read 13,096,679 times
Reputation: 8893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
You're pretty funny, (not ha ha). You have been following Mystic around for weeks, berating him and telling him he's a horrible human being. Please don't try to tell me I am creepy.
the behavior of shutting down someone when they are trying to express their thoughts and their feelings,
yes that is creepy behavior that is a major red flag

the behavior of telling someone what they think, telling someone what they feel, yes that is creepy behavior.


"mind games can be used to undermine one's belief in the validity of their own perceptions. Personal experience may be denied and driven from memory and such abusive mind games may extend to denial of the victim's reality, and the trivializing of what is felt to be important. This verbal coercion may be carried out unconsciously as a result of the need to maintain one's own self-deception."



you have been open about sharing that you were once in a "thought control group" that used these methods. If a person does not undergo treatment with a therapist, counselor, 12-step work, recovery program, then the behaviors continue. A person can not and does not change these patterns on their own without professional treatment. That is a fact.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 08-27-2017 at 03:46 PM..
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Old 08-27-2017, 03:34 PM
 
15,025 posts, read 7,537,694 times
Reputation: 1974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
the behavior of shutting down someone when they are trying to express their thoughts and their feelings,
yes that is creepy behavior that is a major red flag

the behavior of telling someone what they think, telling someone what they feel, yes that is creepy behavior.
Stop it then.
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Old 08-27-2017, 03:57 PM
 
12,456 posts, read 13,096,679 times
Reputation: 8893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Stop it then.
I am discussing a behavior that is detrimental to a person's well being.

The person L8Gr8 posts regularly on the tactics used by "thought control groups" so that anyone can benefit from recognizing these behaviors for what they are and identify them.

I am doing the same thing.

I applaud Mystic for his honesty and clarity and stating succinctly what he is feeling, what he is seeking, and the issues that are bothering him. That is healthy behavior and indicates a tremendous portal for growth, progress, development.

It is not about religious beliefs.
It is about a person's health and well being.

When someone asks for help and issues a sincere cry for help it deserves respect and recognition and encouragement. It takes an incredible amount of courage to state the things he is stating. I offer him my sincere support and best wishes in walking into those areas and exploring them further.

You on the other hand are seeking to shut him down.

These boards also seek to identify and recognize unhealthy behaviors that HARM a person's health and well being. Examples are speaking for someone, telling them what they feel, denying their feelings and experience as valid, telling them their perceptions are not valid, telling them what they think instead. Those are coercive behaviors.
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Old 08-27-2017, 05:58 PM
 
12,456 posts, read 13,096,679 times
Reputation: 8893
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
This is also an accurate expression of my frustration over my failings, especially my difficulty in loving those who do evil of any kind. It is not that "how I do this" is missing. Love of God and each other is how we do it. It is that my ability to love seems inadequate at this time. Having experienced the unconditional love and acceptance, I know that it IS and how it can be but have difficulty reconciling it with the conditions of our reality.
there is so much pain in this post it just breaks my heart.

if a set of beliefs brings a person to this much pain....those beliefs are not life-affirming.
if an ideology brings a person to this level of despair....that ideology is harmful and is not life-affirming.
if a set of beliefs places such unrealistic expectations and demands on person...those beliefs and demands are harmful

if a set of beliefs results in this level of frustration, pain, and feelings of inadequacy...it is not healthy or life affirming.

it is a harmful set of beliefs.
it is an unrealistic set of demands and expectations.
it is cruel beyond measure.

my heart goes out to you Mystic.
anyone in this much pain over the beliefs and the demands put on them by those beliefs.....please know that is not a path that is healthy or life-affirming.

mystic your birthright is kindness and peace and support and encouragement and gentleness at all times and in every place in your life. Not because of who you are or what you believe. Just because you are here. May you one day be surrounded and steeped in all of that.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 08-27-2017 at 06:07 PM..
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Old 08-30-2017, 02:19 AM
Status: "The whole of November will be holiday time for me." (set 5 days ago)
 
3,109 posts, read 865,948 times
Reputation: 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I believe the primary cause of hatred is ignorance people tend to fear what they don't understand and this fear manifests itself as hatred.

However there is a concept of justified hatred that runs counter to this rule, in which the more a person knows the more justified the hatred is.
Things such as child Molestation, Greed, Abuse, Prejudice.

Are there really things we are justified in hating or is it simply our inability to understand it? Does our hatred lessen with knowledge? Are there things and people we Really should hate?
Hate is basically dislike of something or somebody.

This hate could be for various reasons. Ignorance (lack of knowledge) could be one of the reasons and often is the main reason. Other reason could be that something is harmful to you. So you hate it. Perceiving someone as your enemy when that person has not harmed you is also hate.

We can sometimes make mistake in not doing something because it is hateful to us but in reality doing it could be good for us. You might hate bitter medicine when it could be the best medicine for you.

There are several way to describe hate. It is often dislike rather than hate.
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