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Because Atheists are usually atheists because we view the spiritual/religious stuff with logical vision.
And since the logical way of seeing it can only contradict the alogical teachings of religion our question to you is the other side of the same coin, being
"how can you not see that all you believe in is a tale-based fairy-tale by just applying some simple logic?"
And because of this the debate between these two points of views will always be dead.
I can't phantom how the hell you can believe what you do, and you probably can't imagine what kind of idiot like me doesn't understand there is a God up there.
... and yet, he started a thread about it anyway. That almost defines trolling. I see almost no possibility that anybody can ever come up with a rational way to measure the relative positive and negative values of religion on a culture or a world, but we have this thread anyway, with the OP expecting somebody to post statistics or something concrete to prove a viewpoint.
What makes you think anything escapes the realm of logic? Even seemingly alogical systems such as emotions or faith can be explained in logical terms.
It's a bit like the supernatural - natural problem that annoyed Boxcar a bit. If it is supernatural/alogical, it must be so far beyond human consideration as to be beyond knowledge and, therefore, beyond belief. if it comes into human cognisance it immediately becomes considered subjected to logic and is considered natural/materialistic by default. If logic and physics cannot explain it, we suspend judgement until we can - to some extent.
That is why the best that religion/the supernatural and the a-logical can get is agnostic suspended belief - which is all that is needed for atheism re gods and skepticism re: the other supernatural stuff.
This is why logic will not correctly serve religion and why, in the end believers have to reject or sideline or misuse logic. Even those who claim to be arguing logically cannot because their argument are all based on a non - logical assumption.
Now here is where I apply logic. Religion did not cause this people who abuse a religious message did this. To say religion is responsible is like saying a gun or the gun company killed someone, all because someone used a gun to kill someone. Its like saying pencils or keyboards are responsible for grammar errors. It's simple logic, guns and religion don't kill people. People user religion as a reason to kill people with guns. Its simple to see that guns are not the problem, people are. Religion isn't the problem, people are.
Your logic is broken...(False analogy fallacy) It is true that neither guns nor keyboards kill people...Good so far, but neither guns, gun companies nor keyboards influence people with ideas of right or wrong...It takes ideology to do that. In the scope of this discussion that ideology is religion...
Does anyone blame the rope or fire when the religious burned "witches"? It took religion to convince people that witches were evil and should be exterminated.
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Yet, in such a blanket term to say religion caused this violent act to happen, you are basically accusing me of having involvement.
First of all I thought you claimed that you were not religious, and secondly nobody has said that all, or even that most religious people commit atrocities. I'm quite sure that you would never do such a thing...Remember that most atheists have many religious in their families, and are not making blanket statements here.
Would God kill or order the killing of innocent children?
Would God order people to dash infants against rocks and floors?
Would God make parents eat the flesh of their children?
Would God order pregnant women to be ripped open?
Would God kill 70,000 people to punish one man?
Would God order his followers to kill each other?
Would God approve of a vow to kill one’s own daughter?
Would God make people eat feces?!
Why would God need the sight of severed heads to calm his anger?
Would God order the mass execution of unarmed captives?
Would a loving Jesus declare that he would kill innocent children?
Why would an all loving God discriminate against the handicapped?
That would a "yes" to all the above.......... and you think that is logical, or that worshiping such a god is logical?
And that's from your bronze age book of superstitions, not mine for I have no book of superstition, nor would I follow one.
Your logic is broken...(False analogy fallacy) It is true that neither guns nor keyboards kill people...Good so far, but neither guns, gun companies nor keyboards influence people with ideas of right or wrong...It takes ideology to do that. In the scope of this discussion that ideology is religion...
Does anyone blame the rope or fire when the religious burned "witches"? It took religion to convince people that witches were evil and should be exterminated.
First of all I thought you claimed that you were not religious, and secondly nobody has said that all, or even that most religious people commit atrocities. I'm quite sure that you would never do such a thing...Remember that most atheists have many religious in their families, and are not making blanket statements here.
So when someone say religion did this... they are saying...what? Sorry but I should not be responsible for interpreting someone else's claim. Say it straight or don't say it at all. The correct term would be, people with certain religious ideologies did this.
And to say that religion isn't a tool. Hah, so you don't think religious leaders who want to make their followers do something are using religion as a tool?
Edit: I am not religious. However, the term spirituality does fall under most religious umbrella terms.
Would God kill or order the killing of innocent children?
Would God order people to dash infants against rocks and floors?
Would God make parents eat the flesh of their children?
Would God order pregnant women to be ripped open?
Would God kill 70,000 people to punish one man?
Would God order his followers to kill each other?
Would God approve of a vow to kill one’s own daughter?
Would God make people eat feces?!
Why would God need the sight of severed heads to calm his anger?
Would God order the mass execution of unarmed captives?
Would a loving Jesus declare that he would kill innocent children?
Why would an all loving God discriminate against the handicapped?
That would a "yes" to all the above.......... and you think that is logical, or that worshiping such a god is logical?
And that's from your bronze age book of superstitions, not mine for I have no book of superstition, nor would I follow one.
But this would assume that only the Abrahamic god would do such a thing and is real. And I'm sorry, but giving any source that obviously has a biased opinion isn't as valid as a third party non-bias/opinionated source.
The abrahamic God is not the only God in the religious realm. Don't worry, I am not going to play the old testament/new testament game either.
So when someone say religion did this... they are saying...what? Sorry but I should not be responsible for interpreting someone else's claim. Say it straight or don't say it at all. The correct term would be, people with certain religious ideologies did this.
And to say that religion isn't a tool. Hah, so you don't think religious leaders who want to make their followers do something are using religion as a tool?
Edit: I am not religious. However, the term spirituality does fall under most religious umbrella terms.
You're still using bad logic...Religion is more than a tool. It is an ideology that convinces people to take certain actions, sometimes good and sometimes bad. Religion is at the root (cause) of these actions.
Guns, and keyboards ARE merely tools, after all you don't think your keyboard convinces you to make spelling errors do you?
People are not saying that religion does this or that, what they are saying is that religion is what convinced people to do this or that. I don't know why you cannot seem to understand the difference.
For someone proclaiming not to be religious you sure spend a lot of time being apologetic for it
Is there something wrong with accepting others beliefs and defending their right to believe them? I don't support any religious group that causes harm to others or is simply trying to scam someone. In regards to lifestyle choices, if if does no harm, I will defend it even if I don't believe in it. All lifestyles are a choice, all that matters is that the individuals cause no harm.
Or does the actions of one or a few speak for the whole group?
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