Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro
I believe the Bible tells us everything we NEED to know. We are told that God created us. He never mentioned that He decided to sprinkle humanity throughout the cosmos.
It is in our nature though to want to know everything about everything. Kind of like a curious child that wants to put a metal object into an electrical outlet, just to see what happens.
Agape to you my friend.
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Ahhh. So... your true inalterable beliefs surface. Yup. Thought so.
The link you provided: I have to ask for an intellectually
honest answer: did you, in fact, read all of it? Did you note the objections to the Fermi Problem, and it's many scientific and mathematical/statistical
detractors? Did you
then read any of the provided supporting documentation, or did you just grab at the initial summary explanation and then jump to your premature conclusion?
Because you've assumed, by your statement above (I highlighted it in
blue...) that we were, in fact, created by a Godly Creator, which in and of itself is demonstrably illogical. And then, you jumped further, that he "never mentioned" that he'd created other life forms elsewhere. You thus tell us that you conclude the bible to be literate. How's about Noah's Ark?
The overall illogic of it all is astounding: for instance, I've heard so many times that
any complexity
MUST HAVE BEEN CREATED! OK then: who created your God? Or does your absolute argument unfold and self-destruct upon that logical rock? Because you conveniently ignore your own
absolute logical requirement of a
Creator's Creator's
Creator's Creator's Creator's.... well you get the obvious requirement. Or do you?
However, back to your link:
The biggest assumption that is very likely
fact is that we [arrogantly, I'll add...]
assume other life forms are 1) "civilized"
per se 2) would behave just as we do, doing the types and kinds of things we do
[while in fact, their behavior may be entirely illogical, potentially undetectable and even essentially inconceivable to our minds], 3) that they are all motivated to get off their planet, and 4) have had pretty much
the same Evolutionary "breaks" and chronology that we've had (i.e.: abundant fossil fuels to experiment with [which is the specific result of a global ecology changing situation that produced vast, world-wide burying and subsequent time to convert to useful hydrocarbons...], and no persistent cosmic accidents such as living in a particularly active meteoric belt that would produce many life-altering impacts, etc.).
The assumption of some innate huge curiosity and of a burning desire to get off one's home planet and pursue vast but technically impossible distances is
not necessarily inherent in every conceivable life form(s) that
could potentially evolve. Even if there are perhaps hundreds or thousands of higher life forms in our sector of the galaxy, you assume too much in their behavior. and you cannot ignore the fictitious but logical "Prime Directive" from Star Trek, but that most reasonable species
would likely adopt if they found themselves able to easily visit all the other habitable planets: essentially,
"Do not tinker with others' civilizations or lifeforms!"
You are also
completely ignoring the huge number of possible UFO sightings that occur every year. I am a career scientist, and take
everything claimed to be
"miraculous and out of this world!" very skeptically absent some supporting evidence and investigation, and yet...
When I was about 12 or so, I and my best friend, laying on our backs watching the
very clear skies up in north-western Canada (PS: hardly the breeding grounds for advanced super-techno aircraft back in the early '50s...), both simultaneously saw, and
absolutely, a moving light exactly like you'd describe a lone satellite passing overhead these days. But back then, this was
pre-Sputnik!! Think of
that!
And to boot, it was travelling consistently across the sky more or less in a northerly direction, but then it made an exact and abrupt
90˚ degree change of direction to the west
without slowing. It proceeded in that direction for a while, and then did the same thing
again in order to return to it's original heading. My friend hastily called his mom out, and she also witnessed the second directional change. She just shrugged and went back in the house. That'd be
three witnesses, btw.
There were no detectable aircraft engine sounds, either jet or prop (this was also the pre-jet era of advanced flight...), and
certainly there were no research jets up in northern British Columbia back then. Also, there were no flashing anti-collision lights you always see on a normal aircraft. We were, obviously, astounded.
So... was it an "alien" craft? Who knows, but it surely wasn't a meteorite or aircraft as we had ever heard of.
As well, you know that our ability to "flit about", even in our own skies, is very recent: the Wright Brothers' flight was only in 1903, a mere and scant 107 years ago, and we've only now just sent an automated flier to Mars.
Finally, you must be happy in
expressly choosing to
actively ignore all the evidence that our universe is, indeed, very old. Even if the entire universe were
only provably the age of our planet Earth, we still have
insurmountable, irrefutable and
unambiguous evidence, hard and true, that this planet is
very old.
This is, of course, assuming you are even hesitatingly convinced (and convincible) by profuse
logical evidence, and do not go off trying to refute it by
every hair-brained dismissal and "oddball theory" that pops up but that also flies in the face of common sense. Simply to preserve your belief in the bible?
Hey: what if you're
entirely wrong, as all the accumulated and advancing evidence now tells us?
Quote:
Originally Posted by miticoman
Having said that I have the utmost respect for any kind of belief, but some doubts about the bible rising up. the Emperator Constantine that allowed Christian worship, does not talk about it ( even Jesus C. to be honest ), according to some scientist the Bible was written about 1000 years ago and rewritten over the centuries by monks copyers often ignorant of Latin, as you know, rewriting page by page for about 1000 years, it is possible that there are errors in it, or it is also possible that the original meaning is completely changed
anyway the ancient motto..... all that l believe is true....is always perfect
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Bingo, miticoman! some have a
very hard time altering their time honored and stubborn beliefs, that much is patently obvious. Yes, given all the obvious flaws, the re-writes we know of
(as in: the King James version, and all the latest wonderful Modern Bible re-writes especially for the "illerati", plus the vast inconsistencies and contradictions), they are
all happily and summarily ignored or selectively and conveniently swept under the carpet.
All this occurs while biblical believers happily accept any new anti-truth fabrication that pops up. See: Intelligent Design (
), denials of all the latest artifact dating techniques (
), even when they are proven (
) to be accurate, the claim of God simply altering time so as to make distant objects appear to be so (
; and exactly
why would He do this again?) and so on
ad nauseum.
The apparent happy intellectual ownership of this reaction and attitude, coupled with the denial of
all the factual evidence to the contrary, is an astounding peek into the uneducated and scientifically unsophisticated mind of early man, some of whom have
obviously not intellectually advanced nor evolved as much has others. In fact,
and I do now fully believe this hypothesis, given the constant drumbeat of easily-seen supporting proofs, is
this:
There are distinct intellectually separate species of hominids on this planet. Not all have the same abilities nor interests in understanding and accepting obvious facts and truths via the necessary [scientifically derived] logical processes of observation, evaluation and conclusion. Instead, some obviously prefer to just go with the thinking of others, and thereby adopt a feel-good faith-based but obvious mythology, so easily proven to be thus.
But still, I'll give you an intellectual chance: what are your thoughts on Evolution and ancient geology? Are you also a YEC'r?
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Oh my... the truth seeps out.
Caught'cha!
