how is being against gay marriage NOT hateful? (prophets, Christians, beliefs)

[sanspeur]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Technically, I agree with you, at least to some extent. You and I probably see marriage as being a religious contract of sorts, a covenant between a man, a woman, and God. But the laws of the land see marriage as a legal contract. If civil unions truly did give gays and lesbians the same rights as heterosexual couples, I would prefer to see civil unions as the legal agreement pertaining to all couples and marriages as a religious sacrament available to interested couples, but restricted as churches see fit. In other words, I don't think any church that opposes same-sex marriages should be forced to perform such marriages, but regardless of what you want to call it, I don't think we should punish people who believe differently than we do by denying them the same rights we have.

No church in Canada is forced to perform same sex marriages, so that fear is unwarranted, as I'm sure the same applies to the states where same sex marriage is legal.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by nimchimpsky

I wouldn't even want to think about how those laws would be enforced, were they to be enforced.

I just know that I wouldn't want to be the one responsible to enforce them!

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by sanspeur

No church in Canada is forced to perform same sex marriages, so that fear is unwarranted, as I'm sure the same applies to the states where same sex marriage is legal.

That's good to know. So as I said before, as long as marriage is to be considered a legal contract, I have no problem whatsoever with it being extended to same-sex couples.

[sanspeur]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

That's good to know. So as I said before, as long as marriage is to be considered a legal contract, I have no problem whatsoever with it being extended to same-sex couples.

Several Christian denominations do offer to perform same sex marriage wherever it is legal.

[pamelaBeurman]

Originally Posted by lucknow

I'm a committed Christian and I do not oppose gay marriage from any spiritual or moral standpoint. After all, a civil marriage it's self is in no manner Christian. If Christians oppose gay marriage from a spiritual perspective than it follows that they must oppose marriage for all of the other sinners out there. Foricators, liars, gluttons, greedy people etc. Christians get all hung up on particular sins and really it's not scriptural at all. The bible tells us in no uncertain terms to "Love your neighbour". What we are talking about here is a secular social convention and to argue against it you must argue it from a secular social standpoint or your arguement is moote.

I am opposed for legal reasons. Marriage in our culture has had a definition that has served or civilization well for a couple of thousand years. I don't like the idea of messing with something that has worked for us so well for so long. I have no problem with the idea of a civil union for gay couples and in that union they have all the same rights as married couples. That is not good enough for them though and here is where I'm likely to get into trouble. I think they don't accept that as being good enough becasue they want to force the idea on the rest of us that they are NO DIFFERENT than anyone else. I dispute that idea. They are definitely diferent than me and every single hetrosexual that exists. That is the real bone of contention. They not only want equality they want to be seen as no different than anyone and that will never happen even if they are allowed to marry.

Well then, why don't we just abolish marriage and only have civil unions?

If it's good enough for "them" is should be good enough for everyone.

[Green Onions]

Originally Posted by nimchimpsky

I wouldn't even want to think about how those laws would be enforced, were they to be enforced.

Well, there used to be such laws (many are still on the books of various jurisdictions, but being unconstitutional they have no meaning). They were enforced rather sporadically, usually after the act was discovered inadvertantly, but sometimes through systematic persecution of gays.

Sadly, I have little doubt that many people regret that such laws are no longer valid.

[QuixoticHobbit]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

That's good to know. So as I said before, as long as marriage is to be considered a legal contract, I have no problem whatsoever with it being extended to same-sex couples.

And what about same sex couples who happen to want a religious marriage? Who want a contract between themselves and God? Christian churches and the Christian god don't own the exclusive rights to religious marriages.

[Sir Les]

Originally Posted by pamelaBeurman

Post #8, third paragraph from the bottom beginning with the word "hence".

If that isn't an approval of gay marriage I don't know what is.

I did mean in the church and or under God... which is a Holy thing brought under God...Pedophiles cannot do this...and they have infiltrated the house of God, to curse those coming into it, or being baptized by it, or wed under it....See the evil working in that estate?

.

Civil marage is not wedlock...but it holds the concepts of it, in terms of belongings given to the loved one as heir when passing on into death...

That is what is being sought...?

There is no other reason in my mind, mutations or abomonations want to wedlock..in a church...persay......as I see it it is only to infuriate and make dissensions in the ranks...when God clearly states his disposition on that very act...being deplorable to him....why would anyone say or do it...is only to be opposed to what God said about it....which is Anti or opposite God.

Now Jesus is a bit different...but in allowing cause and effect...and cycles of truth to formulate a resolve..or a truth...leaving them sinners and evildoers be...as they should also leave the righteous and holy be...we then can draw lines as to what is true, and what is not true...what is good, and what is bad....and make them lines stick without change...make em truth...and remove the liars.

Yep....And if one stops that from occuring...through banter, mockery, or bent judgement...bullying..or mobbing.....then we also know something is in error with them.

Demonica trying to change the word of God...hmmm...something tells me, there is reason for the demonica to want to do that.....which compells me to believe there is some truth to what is written...

Just an observation.
Sexual ludness brings sickness and suffering (Proven)
So I draw a line to that.

Just saying!

[Sir Les]

Originally Posted by lucknow

I'm a committed Christian and I do not oppose gay marriage from any spiritual or moral standpoint. After all, a civil marriage it's self is in no manner Christian. If Christians oppose gay marriage from a spiritual perspective than it follows that they must oppose marriage for all of the other sinners out there. Foricators, liars, gluttons, greedy people etc. Christians get all hung up on particular sins and really it's not scriptural at all. The bible tells us in no uncertain terms to "Love your neighbour". What we are talking about here is a secular social convention and to argue against it you must argue it from a secular social standpoint or your arguement is moote.

I am opposed for legal reasons. Marriage in our culture has had a definition that has served or civilization well for a couple of thousand years. I don't like the idea of messing with something that has worked for us so well for so long. I have no problem with the idea of a civil union for gay couples and in that union they have all the same rights as married couples. That is not good enough for them though and here is where I'm likely to get into trouble. I think they don't accept that as being good enough becasue they want to force the idea on the rest of us that they are NO DIFFERENT than anyone else. I dispute that idea. They are definitely diferent than me and every single hetrosexual that exists. That is the real bone of contention. They not only want equality they want to be seen as no different than anyone and that will never happen even if they are allowed to marry.

We seem to be slightly narrow minded in scope with this kind of thinking.

First our neighbours...What do we consider to be our neighbours?.

I believe God made many different creatures, and called them Good...and put em in a placement...and called them all Good...when he made em.
They live , the reside where we are...then they are our neighbours !!!

So Love thy Neighbour as thyself...would intale a wider scope of field in my understanding.

This also extends to plants...so the prohibition of plants is wrong...Giving back what belongs to God is prudent...Something taken without permission...by those who did the deed...Adam and Eve...before Adam and Eve, there were hermaphrodites...Adam was one.

So wedlock is the reversal of the split, to become like the first Adam.(obediant).So that they when symbolically Joined in union, could restore that plant back to where it belongs...and thus restore Eden..and then multiply that Eden into Edens...sinlessly.

So..to untwist the twisted...to find error, and correct it, to stop using the IDOL of Evil...might reduce something from being twisted in the flesh.

Adam and Eve cannot make perfection by being opposed to God.

Now we have the commandments....all of them have to be fulfilled to the letter of the law...one broken and they all become broken...eventually.

So the one about IDOLS...Money is a Idol of engraven images...they will not stop using...and have not.
Being born into this, creates the twisted and mutated..sick, and suffering, destitute, afflicted, and death is still promonent and expected or allowed for in oh so many ways....while the woes and wrath are let loose...a little here, a little there....and they claim it to be natural disasters...or someother reasoning for it...

Now God said if we follow his commandments and honour his ways...and adhere to the laws of the lands...and reside on them sinlessly...these lands will be spared, made abundantly Giving...and peace, happiness, and health would result from doing what God said, and in some respects what God did...he Gave us everything....Good....which is listed in the Genesis....

So to make word of truth...all that is made by God is Given to us....why are they denying that, on one hand, and making us work for it in dead form, through the altar of that IDOL?..while polluting it on the other hand....to make us more sick and more death arise?

Love thy Neighbour as thy self?...do you pollute your body?...if so..then all is well with you?..or are you sick?...is that Love?

And if we pollute the earth...are we not also polluting the Neighbours on it?....

See the scope of field of God is not just with Humans...it is with all Living things...of which he made us to tend to them, as they intern tend to us, and the system.

Respecting them for what they do..for us...that is why God wants his plant back where it belongs...unabused, restored with understanding and repentance!....by those who took it...

The wedlock was in mind of that....so two males or females Joining the wrong way before God...is Just asking for trouble,...In my mind.

And there are others who have sex with animals...again not a good thing to be doing to our neighbours......but they do!....wonder why?


And the IDOL which brings about destitution, sin and evil...as Jesus points out...still in use!...born into it, under it, and by its curse, we are punished for those sins...Sins = the disobediance of God...which is what is being born because of that disobediance!

Are they gonna make it right?...by slaughtering the Holy or Righteous?....as is now going on?

Thou shall not Murder...Yet war is drawn up to kill with lies, underhandedness, and murder or assasinations..secret services done!

So easily done, with the support of the taxed hand, and top secrets!

Love thy Neighbour?

Yah tell me when that happens....cause I want to see it happen , in the right way.

Sexual ludness brings sickness and suffering....Love thy neighbour?...sure!...Now Jesus said "Love eachother as I HAVE LOVED YOU"....no sex was done at all!

Now that might be the unspoken truth we deny our understanding of...no sex...equals no sickness in some regards..holds true!

[pamelaBeurman]

It amazes me that this discussion about equality and civil rights keeps sliding into a discussion about sex.

Isn't the issue here about the hatred and bigotry surrounding one simple thing, the right of loving couples to marry?