Ok, from the outset everyone should know I am an athiest who does not believe in a god. In the other thread that got closed it spiraled down into personal attacks against me simply for trying to get an honest answer to the question. I have no agenda, just wanting a real, substantial answer backed up with facts. But I suppose that's the norm for Christians to turn the tables on atheists and completely project all of their fear and doubt onto someone who they know is absolutely correct in what they are saying. After all, they are trying to hold onto something which has zero evidence for existence.
There were a couple of posts I didn't have a chance to respond to before the thread got closed so I'll do it here.
Quote:
Originally posted by MysticPhd
The premise of the OP is flawed, Ilene. Like you, it presumes a Biblical All-powerful God deliberately doing or not doing things. You have not left the old God concept behind and instead have adopted another extreme position toward the same God. This time the exact opposite of your earlier extreme position. I pray you will find the middle ground some day and not presume to know what God can or cannot do, should or should not do, will or won't do . . . or how God interfaces with us on this physical plane since He has given us Dominion over it. We are Spiritual beings, Ilene . . . stop thinking carnally about this physical realm as the end all be all of our existence. It is not.
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No, the premise is not flawed at all, it is a valid, legitimate and reasonable question to ask of the believers who claim that their god is Love....what is the purpose of the suffering, why put mankind in a imperfect world when he could have just as easily provided the "heaven" like existence where suffering didn't exist. You may say that he did that with the Garden of Eden but man screwed that up and brought sin into the world so it's our fault and will continue until he returns. How can man be responsible when they were created as imperfect beings who were doomed to sin and god knew it? It's been one test and trial after another, a sick twisted game that your god has been playing since the beginning but yet you defend him by saying he has a plan, it's not for us to know and he works in mysterious ways. I don't believe the bible to be the word of god, just man-made ramblings and fairy tales to try and explain the unexplainable.
What you don't seem to be grasping when it comes to me is that I no longer believe in a god, good or bad or alien and there is no extreme position on my part because that's impossible, I'm simply stating the facts of what YOU believe and how absurd it is when there is no evidence whatsoever to back up your claims that a god exists. There is no "spiritually", "carnally" or "physical realm".....that is purely imagined and comes from a deep seeded need to make this life something more than it is, which is nothing. We live and then we die, and the "how" of how we came into being is nothing more than the big bang theory and evolution.
I don't presume to know what God can or cannot do as you put it, because for the gazzilionth time I don't believe in him. My talking about a god is to simply show you how absurd and out of touch with reality it is to believe in one, especially one who does absolutely nothing to end the suffering. Could your God not have created a perfect world for us to live in without it? According to you he could have, he just chose not to. So what's the point of this life to you as a Christian? And don't give me that old tired speech of we needed to go through trials and tribulations to build character and experience the difference between good and evil so we would know the difference. And pray tell, what would be the need for all that if we had been created as celestial beings in the first place where no violence, pain and suffering would have ever existed? Just peace and tranquility, living lovely lives and being more than happy to worship our creator for all of eternity. But no......instead, he has to torture us to get his jollies and see who is worthy of heaven, even though he already knows the outcome of that. Um hmmm, that makes perfect sense. And don't get me started on "Satan".....if God was so powerful Satan could have been squashed from the get go, but NO.....God "allows" him to wreak havoc, but oh, it's just for a little while. No biggie.
Yes yes, I know that's all from the perspective of a "carnal" mind right? But yet the bible says we were created in his image so wouldn't that include thinking rationally and expecting him to at least be as good as the best human being he created? Instead, he's more like the sinister voyeur next door who loves to look on with great anticipation of what might happen next, even though he already knows what's going to happen next....yeah, that's a real ace of a guy to look up to and worship. So don't waste your time condescending to me and accusing me of being "mad" at a god I don't even believe in. It's a very simple thing Mystic, prove your god and when you do, explain his whole reasoning behind creating up imperfect when he's quite capable of creating up perfect.
Now then, one other idiotic post I wanted to address:
Originally posted by BanterKing
Moderator cut: delete
Quote:
So I'm guessing you prayed to g-d to win the lottery - and didn't. Then, you soured on g-d because, after all, who is more deserving than Ilene, right?????
Such a silly notion, that human suffering equals no god. In other words, planet earth should literally be heaven on earth, a hedonistic paradise where cherry pies fall from the sky, we all get to play quarterback (or be head cheerleader) and it's impossible to lose your car keys....
What an asanine idea. Through trial and tribulation we become people of character - or not. Ever known a kid whose parents gave him/her everything they wanted? How did they turn out? A world full of insufferable spoiled brats sounds more hellish than anything we have currently. I mean duuuuhhhh.
but I'm sure if you were g-d you'd run this planet lots better. After all, you're poor lonely Ilene, self proclaimed Warrior Princess.....indeed..lol
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This is what I was talking about with Christians deflecting and projecting with insults and mud-slinging when they simply have no answer to why a god would allow suffering. This is a textbook response, and so out of touch with reality that it really is kind of sad. It's an asinine idea to expect a loving deity to create a perfect world from the beginning with perfect people/beings because they'll be spoiled brats. Now think about this stupid statement.....perfection to the Christian mind is without flaw, loving, caring and this is what they look forward to being in heaven. But somehow that was impossible for this deity to create the first go around because why? Hmmm, makes me think he might be fallible and actually makes mistakes OR he got bored with all that "perfection" that the angels provided and needed a little entertainment for a few centuries, you know, just to mix it up a little bit. You know, this completely "asinine" of post didn't even deserve a response but I had to address it because the "poor lonely Ilene" self-proclaimed Warrior Princess needs to be explained. First off, I used to be a hard-core fundamental Christian and that's where the Warrior Princess thing came from. It is also a reference to "Xena, Warrior Princess" who was one tough chick....I just liked the show. This is the kind of thing I have been talking about.....insults and name calling when weenie, scared, and clueless Christians have nothing more to offer. They have no real answer to the question of why their god allows suffering and resort to petty and pathetic comments. Let's try to keep this civil and really delve into why you all REALLY believe that a supposed loving god would allow suffering, trials, tribulations, horror, wars, infant deaths, brutal rapes and murder of women and children etc etc etc.....the list is endless. You know my take on it, a loving god would not/could not allow such things to happen, therefore he must not exist.
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