Truth before religion AND science... (prophet, priest, LDS, worship)

[KCfromNC]

Originally Posted by Chango

Both sides claim to have it all, both sides have some of it and neither side has all of it.

Science and religion are equal in that respect but both perspectives are simply different means to seek the truth, not the truth itself.

I don't think science claims to be looking for truth in the same sense religion does. Science is looking to generate models which help up predict what we'll observe in the future. Religion, at least in general, it looking for something different. Most cynically, answers without questioning and despite reality. For more mature religions, it's about questions which don't have yes or no answers.

But since I don't know what you mean by truth in this context, it's hard to tell which approach is better for finding it.

[KCfromNC]

Originally Posted by themaster

Actually, in some respects science is a religion..

But none that really matter.

But we are going to see in the future a blending.. a merging of the two.. science can't figure out the universe because it's missing the "spiritual" piece

Yes, just like it is musing the piece where unicorn farts power the weather. Most people don't see that as a weakness, though.

If you want another analogy.. simply look at it like this.. science is left brained.. and spirit/understanding the universe/yourself is right brained.. if you look at reality from your LEFT brain.. you'll never figure it out.. when you can look at it from both sides in "balance" in a wholeness then you get the clearer view..

Thousands of years of technological progress disagree with you. Get back to us when religion produces something as useful as agriculture, medicine or electrical power.

[themaster]

Originally Posted by KCfromNC

Thousands of years of technological progress disagree with you. Get back to us when religion produces something as useful as agriculture, medicine or electrical power.

Religion produces heart and happiness.. I see in your cynicism.. your missing both.. too bad for you! lol (your energy and comments are very left-brained congrats! )


All the 10 billion scientists in the world (there are actually very few) couldn't produce heart and happiness for you.. if you don't "let" them

[themaster]

Cynicism is the true weapon of every scientist.. thanks for demonstrating it so well.. KCfromNC

[Sci Fi Fan]

Originally Posted by Chango

Both sides claim to have it all, both sides have some of it and neither side has all of it.

Golden Mean Fallacy. You're ridiculous to criticize the accuracy of the scientific method. Modern science has proven itself through its success. It has improved the human condition by more than any other singular intellectual method in the history of our species. Its predictions about the universe are accurate. Its application works; bridges remain stable, elevators don't fall and kill you, and medicine saves lives.

Religion? What has religion gotten right? Greek Gods live on Olympus? The sun is pulled by a chariot in the sky? The Earth is at the center of the universe? Diseases are the work of the devil?

Oops, all wrong. So what's with it with your "both sides are equal!" nonsense?

Originally Posted by themaster

Religion produces heart and happiness.. I see in your cynicism.. your missing both.. too bad for you! lol (your energy and comments are very left-brained congrats! )


All the 10 billion scientists in the world (there are actually very few) couldn't produce heart and happiness for you.. if you don't "let" them

ROFLAMO! This is funny stuff. So computers, internet, medicine, smallpox vaccinations, clean water and life saving surgeries don't produce "heart and happiness"?

What about the thousands of men, women and children slaughtered, tortured and raped during the crusades? Would they enjoy a pathetic, self centered prick telling them religion brings people "heart and happiness"?

Cynicism is the true weapon of every scientist.. thanks for demonstrating it so well.. KCfromNC

You do understand that Science is the reason why you have a computer in front of you, right?

Was Jonas Salk, a scientist, who developed the polio vaccine and saved millions of lives, a cnynist because he employed science? Do you think he'd have cured the vaccine by sitting on the floor and praying?

[themaster]

Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan

Was Jonas Salk, a scientist, who developed the polio vaccine and saved millions of lives, a cnynist because he employed science? Do you think he'd have cured the vaccine by sitting on the floor and praying?

Yes, exactly so why do you science religious types.. always use cynicism as a weapon? (here their cult leader/hero didn't! )

You have to remember I believe in a balance.. a wholeness

So I think science is very useful.. but it doesn't make you happy.. especially if it's your religion!

Science fanboys or science religions boys.. are much like apple vs. smartphone boys.. or apple vs. microsoft.. or xbox360 vs. ps3.. they take a side fight viciously.. and have no balance no openness to both ideas..

I said above science is in some respects a religion.. and here I've pointed it out..

The truth is scientists can observe the universe.. but they don't know how it REALLY works.. they don't know why things work the way they do.. and they can study until there blue in the face and they won't figure much out (they'll figure out some) without a balance and a wholeness perspective.. which comes from that other half of the brain..

There is already in existence a lot of science to prove the other half.. it's just not talked about.. and religious science fanboys (new term I trademarked ) would never even read about it.. cause 99% of them have never read a scientific paper in their life!

----

Since you bring up the topic of disease

Science is currently locked in a battle with all these diseases.. every day they create more CURES for new diseases that keep cropping up.. but at the CORE of the issue.. they have no idea what CREATES disease.. they know about dna.. and swine flu and other weird things.. but they don't know why new DISEASES really keep being created..

There locked in a war you can't even win.. cause they'll fix cancer and "vicious swine flu malaria b type variant 2" will spring up the next day..

To say that science has all the answers.. is very naive..

Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan

ROFLAMO! This is funny stuff. So computers, internet, medicine, smallpox vaccinations, clean water and life saving surgeries don't produce "heart and happiness"?

Go into your house.. look at all your STUFF..


Are you happy?


(if so.. good for you)

Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan

You do understand that Science is the reason why you have a computer in front of you, right?

uhuh.. but science is technically just a magic trick lol

[GldnRule]

NOTHING requires "scientific validation" to be "true".
What is "true" is "true"...regardless of whether "science" has figured it out or not.

EXAMPLE: Gravity, and it's effects were "true" before Newton figured it out.

"Religious claims" are "true" if they are...if they are not "true", then they aren't. Science only figures into it from the standpoint of research in an attempt to try to come to a determination of "trueness"...not to "make it true" or not. They are what they are, relative to "true or not"...just like anything "is what it is", science aside.

Actually, science is sooooooo "limited"...it's not even needed...ANNNNNNND (while I'm at it)...that would be the same for philosophy/religion!

Science is "nice". It "figures things out"...and that helps to satisfy our curiosity, and provide us with methods/processes/procedures and things that add to our convenience and comfort...and it helps us to extend our lifespan...but we don't really need science. Not as in "NEED" need.

That's how we ended up with all these "Gods" in the first place. Mankind didn't know what was really going on...so they cobbed up some hocus-pocus entities as a way to explain what they couldn't figure out.
But it's not like that lack of scientific knowledge ever put the species at risk of not making it. Man has made it for most of the time of existence without any real "scientific study/knowledge".

All things (except man), both "animal" and "vegetable", live on without ever having any scientific knowledge...or religious knowledge...or "worldview".

We don't "need" ANY of it---THAT'S how "limited" it all REALLY is!

[Lamplight]

Originally Posted by themaster

To say that science has all the answers.. is very naive..

I'm pretty sure no one is claiming that science has all the answers. Every credible scientist on the planet would tell you that's a ridiculous statement no matter who's making it.

[themaster]

Originally Posted by Lamplight

I'm pretty sure no one is claiming that science has all the answers. Every credible scientist on the planet would tell you that's a ridiculous statement no matter who's making it.

Yes, well to be clear.. "science fan boys" make that argument all the time.. whether their aware (conscious of it) is another matter..

I once heard a very smart lecture on how science is just a "permission slip" to get a effect.. one day we will recognize we no longer need "science/permission slip"

[Lamplight]

Originally Posted by themaster

Yes, well to be clear.. "science fan boys" make that argument all the time..

I can't say I've ever heard a rationally-minded adult claim that science has all the answers. Over-zealous teenage atheists, maybe.