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Vizio, what do you have to say about the following Bible verse:
"I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; you were very dear to me. Your love for me was wonderful, more wonderful than that of women."- 2 Samuel 1:26
In the other hand, yes God created male and female. But all verses in the Bible apparently condemning homosexuality are, in reality, condemning promiscuity, similar to what happens in the army and prisons when people are way to far from the opposite sex and cannot hold on their sexual appetite. Also, the Bible does not endorse man-woman equality, fantasizing about others, fornication, and other sins and I don't see Christians as concerned as with homosexuality. There is a lot of falsehood going on in the church and it is time people realize churches are not, in a great extent, what they are supposed to be. Not to mention all the pedophilia and other sexual perversions that happen in a frightening basis in both Catholic and non-Catholic Christian churches.
Taking that verse to mean a homosexual relationship is viewing it through the lens of 21st century American culture. Hyper-masculinity as we know it today in America didn't exist at the time that was written and no one in those days would have taken it to mean anything sexual. Guys in the Middle East today still hold hands and kiss and they aren't gay. Out of all the liberal interpretations of Scripture to justify homosexuality, that is probably the weakest. The interpretation of Romans 1 that it's only referring to pagan rituals holds more weight.
If you view the story of David and Jonathan as being homosexual, then you must also believe Romans 1 is condemning all same sex acts. The reason being is that both are through a 21st century American lens. You yourself are saying you must take Romans 1 in its cultural context so you must do the same for David and Jonathan.
We know they exist. But the fact is, they were born either male or female. That's what stinks about this world, isn't it? Nothing is perfect. It's a broken world. Some people are just born with a bad lot in life. Whether you're a kid with a terminal disease, or a person born with both gender's sex organs.
Your answer shows it's clear you don't want to bother to educate yourself on this topic, so I'm not sure what you hope to gain with posts that just prove how little you know about the topic.
Does your 'faith' require you to be willfully ignorant of facts? If so, it's not a very strong faith.
Your answer shows it's clear you don't want to bother to educate yourself on this topic, so I'm not sure what you hope to gain with posts that just prove how little you know about the topic.
Does your 'faith' require you to be willfully ignorant of facts? If so, it's not a very strong faith.
No..I fully comprehend the fact that the effects of sin on this world are horrible. God didn't mean for sin, disease, homosexuality, etc to be on earth. I personally know of several people dying from cancer. Others are from broken homes....many are on their 2nd and 3rd marriages. Instead of doing it God's way...we do it our way and just mess it all up.
God created male and female in a nice garden. Adam and Eve screwed that up, and we willfully embrace it.
No..I fully comprehend the fact that the effects of sin on this world are horrible. God didn't mean for sin, disease, homosexuality, etc to be on earth. I personally know of several people dying from cancer. Others are from broken homes....many are on their 2nd and 3rd marriages. Instead of doing it God's way...we do it our way and just mess it all up.
God created male and female in a nice garden. Adam and Eve screwed that up, and we willfully embrace it.
"Created male and female in a nice garden"?
Are you serious? It's a creation myth. A story. Just like many other creation myths and stories created by primitive cultures.
For those interested, this thread I linked to is a good one from a couple years ago. In fact, Jaymax, you contributed a bit to it. It is a fact that fundalmentalist Christians don't like discussing that type of subject. It's much easier to pretend that those types of people don't exist.
No..I fully comprehend the fact that the effects of sin on this world are horrible. God didn't mean for sin, disease, homosexuality, etc to be on earth. I personally know of several people dying from cancer. Others are from broken homes....many are on their 2nd and 3rd marriages. Instead of doing it God's way...we do it our way and just mess it all up.
God created male and female in a nice garden. Adam and Eve screwed that up, and we willfully embrace it.
What did we "mess up" for people to get diseases and cancer?
If someone gets cancer is it because they sinned? Do you believe people "willfully embrace" disease? (I'm trying to figure out why you chose to put disease between sin and homosexuality because that's just flat-out odd to me. I've read enough of your posts to know why you put sin and homosexuality together.)
Taking that verse to mean a homosexual relationship is viewing it through the lens of 21st century American culture.
You mean like anti-gays view the verses in the Bible supposedly against homosexuality through the lens of 21st Century American culture? Quite the double standard.
Quote:
If you view the story of David and Jonathan as being homosexual, then you must also believe Romans 1 is condemning all same sex acts. The reason being is that both are through a 21st century American lens. You yourself are saying you must take Romans 1 in its cultural context so you must do the same for David and Jonathan.
I'm not saying they were gay, but I think that's a much closer relationship than one would typically see between 2 men in an extremely patriarchal society. Either way, you don't know that it wasn't a romantic same-sex relationships, and we don't know that it was. All it shows is that two men are Biblically allowed to love each other more than they love women.
This is not a matter to be decided by "the majority". People have their rights, PERIOD, and no other human has the right to "decide" those rights for them. If heterosexuals don't like homosexuality, then they can stay heterosexual is just as simple as that. But not all of us want to be heterosexual and I don't like that any other soul decides which orientation I have to follow.
Should father be allowed to take their daughters as wives? Is it their right? Is anyone telling gay people to stop sleeping with each other? What rights don't they have? oh they cant have a piece of paper that says "married" because its a law....
Should father be allowed to take their daughters as wives? Is it their right? Is anyone telling gay people to stop sleeping with each other? What rights don't they have? oh they cant have a piece of paper that says "married" because its a law....
Gays can be fired or denied housing in most states just for being gay. And that little piece of paper has 1500 benefits and rights associated with it.
You mean like anti-gays view the verses in the Bible supposedly against homosexuality through the lens of 21st Century American culture? Quite the double standard.
My response was not holding a double standard. I was technically saying the same thing you were. You say you have to look at Romans 1 in the cultural context, which from your research is condemning idolatry, not homosexuality. In that light, you have to look at the story of David and Jonathan in cultural context.
Let me add that the notion of David and Jonathan being gay started in the 1950s, during the era where today's hyper-masculine, homophobic culture was coming into its own, the beginning of the gay rights movement were taking shape, and deep, close relationships between to straight males like David and Jonathan began to be shunned as being homosexual.
Last edited by bchris02; 02-25-2013 at 06:28 PM..
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