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What irrefutable evidence--and don't copy and paste. I want to know what YOU know is irrefutable evidence that you yourself have established as irrefutable through your own investigation!!!!!! Unless you have researched and done the "experiments" YOURSELF, you are trusting completely in the work of others--the same argument you hurl at creationists.
Preterist
Are you throwing the "no absolute truths" things at me???
Really Preterist, you know I can't personally prove evolution (or any scientific model for that matter) physically, any more than you can provide physical evidence for the virgin birth.
The BIG difference though is that there are rational and logical conclusions to draw from data. Do you accept that there was an ice age? (you probably do, although I can't be sure ) but nobody has observed one. What about meteors that have struck the earth? Nobody has witnessed one, but we can accept that it has happened from craters that have appeared on the earth's surface, scorch marks etc etc
Even if someday, evolution/gravitational theory/relativity etc was proven to be completely false, this doesn't mean that therefore the Christian God must be true. The amount of evidence for evolution (for example) has been proven to such an extent that it is now acepted as fact by the overwhelming proportion of the world's population. The evidence for the Christian God is zero.
So you see the arguments presented by the non-believers are based on evidence. The arguments presented by believers is based on faith. The difference, you'd think, would be obvious.
Are you throwing the "no absolute truths" things at me???
Really Preterist, you know I can't personally prove evolution (or any scientific model for that matter) physically, any more than you can provide physical evidence for the virgin birth.
The BIG difference though is that there are rational and logical conclusions to draw from data. Do you accept that there was an ice age? (you probably do, although I can't be sure ) but nobody has observed one. What about meteors that have struck the earth? Nobody has witnessed one, but we can accept that it has happened from craters that have appeared on the earth's surface, scorch marks etc etc
Even if someday, evolution/gravitational theory/relativity etc was proven to be completely false, this doesn't mean that therefore the Christian God must be true. The amount of evidence for evolution (for example) has been proven to such an extent that it is now acepted as fact by the overwhelming proportion of the world's population. The evidence for the Christian God is zero.
So you see the arguments presented by the non-believers are based on evidence. The arguments presented by believers is based on faith. The difference, you'd think, would be obvious.
"Thinking themselves to be wise, they became fools." Both are based on faith! The truth is you yourself have not seen any of this evidence nor researched any of this evidence you stand behind. You are taking on faith the findings of others. In one breath you tell me that YOU can't prove evolution and in the next breath you tell me the evidence is so extensive that many people believe in it? If it is so extensive, would you please give me ONE fact of evolution that you have personally discovered through your own investigation. You throw out a statement that evolution is based upon lots and lots of evidence, yet you cannot give me one proof that you have seen for yourself. If you have none, then you are accepting by faith those whom you have decided to trust.
The evidence for the Christian God is zero? Ian6479--you see the evidence of God every time you look in the mirror. Why do your eyes see? Why do you think and reason? Why does your heart beat? How did protein form? Why is there life in your blood? Why do your lungs breathe in oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide? Why does your brain "think?" How did your hand--the most complicated and marvelous "machine" in all the world, come about? Why does your pancreas work? Why does your body continuously repair itself? Why do catepillars become butterflies? Why do birds fly south before winter and come back again without an instrument panel? Why do termites and flagellates co-exist--each maintaining the life of the other? What is DNA? How did it begin? Who or what thought up the myriad of patterns that make up the living things in our world? etceteraaaa, etceteraaaa, etceteraaaa!
No evidence of God? "The fool has said in his heart there is no God."
You are blinded by your total unwillingness to accept the concept of God because you hate Him and do not want to submit to Him and His authority over you. But you will believe in God--either in this world or the next. You will.
I have edited out some personal, rude, offensive remarks from this thread and there's some more that probably should go as well. (I'm still looking at a couple of posts.)
I'm putting you guys on notice that I have no problem with either view/opinion on this subject but the rude and offensive language has got to cease or infractions will follow.
Please respond to the ideas and opinions rather than the poster.
"Thinking themselves to be wise, they became fools." Both are based on faith! The truth is you yourself have not seen any of this evidence nor researched any of this evidence you stand behind. You are taking on faith the findings of others. In one breath you tell me that YOU can't prove evolution and in the next breath you tell me the evidence is so extensive that many people believe in it? If it is so extensive, would you please give me ONE fact of evolution that you have personally discovered through your own investigation. You throw out a statement that evolution is based upon lots and lots of evidence, yet you cannot give me one proof that you have seen for yourself. If you have none, then you are accepting by faith those whom you have decided to trust.
The evidence for the Christian God is zero? Ian6479--you see the evidence of God every time you look in the mirror. Why do your eyes see? Why do you think and reason? Why does your heart beat? How did protein form? Why is there life in your blood? Why do your lungs breathe in oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide? Why does your brain "think?" How did your hand--the most complicated and marvelous "machine" in all the world, come about? Why does your pancreas work? Why does your body continuously repair itself? Why do catepillars become butterflies? Why do birds fly south before winter and come back again without an instrument panel? Why do termites and flagellates co-exist--each maintaining the life of the other? What is DNA? How did it begin? Who or what thought up the myriad of patterns that make up the living things in our world? etceteraaaa, etceteraaaa, etceteraaaa!
No evidence of God? "The fool has said in his heart there is no God."
You are blinded by your total unwillingness to accept the concept of God because you hate Him and do not want to submit to Him and His authority over you. But you will believe in God--either in this world or the next. You will.
Preterist
I have aleady answered your first paragraph.
The second is one full of what you see around you. I'm glad that you are so observent, but this really is proof of nothing supernatural.
The second is one full of what you see around you. I'm glad that you are so observent, but this really is proof of nothing supernatural.
The third I cannot comprehend
Have a great weekend.
The second is proof of something greater than ourselves with an incomprehensible mind that ordered the patterns and functions of everything we see around us!
The third one? What don't you understand? It is foolish for one to look around at the great complexities of life, beginning with the unfathomable mysteries of the human body alone, and come to the conclusion that there is no designer behind it all. That is totally irrational and illogical. It is as irrational and illogical as supposing that the greatest techonogical human creations of the world came about without a planner and a designer! Why can't you make that connection?
Even before I became a christian, I had a hard time believing that something as utterly complex as the human body could ever evolve from something so simple as a protozoa. Now you might say, what about our offspring....they come from a simple cell? Yes, but the DNA stamp present in humans is light years more complex than a single-cell protozoa, past or present.
Is the DNA really THHHHAAATTT close between us and everything else running around? Perhaps. Yet there is that truly defining difference that separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom. One question I always had is if evolution is a process of change, then why are all the animals we evolved from still hanging around?
On final thought....big bang theory. Ok, I'm not talking about the dinner I tried to make last night. The idea of something from nothing has always puzzled me and I have never gotten a straight answer from anyone when I ask: who or what created the atom which evolved into the big bang anyway? Try dropping dominoes onto the floor and let them sit there. Unless someone comes along and picks them up, they will continue to sit there for years and slowly disintegrate. However, it take the hands of someone to fashion and form them into something that represents something.
Ok, I'm done. Just some wild thoughts I decided to throw out at 6:00 am on a Sunday morning where I can't sleep cause I have a tremendous head cold. Have a great day and God bless.
This thread is just plain scary. I just hope some people never attain any political power or exert any influence on malleable adults and children.The mind just boggles.....
I dread to think what an army of these people would be and do...
This thread is just plain scary. I just hope some people never attain any political power or exert any influence on malleable adults and children.The mind just boggles.....
I dread to think what an army of these people would be and do...
Maybe I should move to England or another part of Europe..... tell me it isn't this bad over there
Even before I became a christian, I had a hard time believing that something as utterly complex as the human body could ever evolve from something so simple as a protozoa. Now you might say, what about our offspring....they come from a simple cell? Yes, but the DNA stamp present in humans is light years more complex than a single-cell protozoa, past or present.
It's not that humans come from a protozoa, however all things have one common ancestor and I imagine it is a wonderful propaganda tool from Creationists to word it in such a way. There's a reason why every living animal and plant is a carbon based lifeform and that all living things (on Earth) require water to live by. And no, it's not God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlemur
One question I always had is if evolution is a process of change, then why are all the animals we evolved from still hanging around?
All dogs are common ancestors of the wolf. This is not disputed. Why, if we have chihuahua's do we still have wolves?
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlemur
On final thought....big bang theory. Ok, I'm not talking about the dinner I tried to make last night. The idea of something from nothing has always puzzled me and I have never gotten a straight answer from anyone when I ask: who or what created the atom which evolved into the big bang anyway?
Who or what created the God you worship? I think it's entirely unfair to say that because God exists outside the realm of space and time that he does not need a Creator yet matter must require a creator. Regardless, to answer your question, I first must point out that when we talk about the Big Bang we are referring to the first nanosecond after it started. That is, the rapid expansion of the universe. As far as where the matter came from... I honestly don't have an answer for you, and neither does modern day science as far as I know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlemur
Try dropping dominoes onto the floor and let them sit there. Unless someone comes along and picks them up, they will continue to sit there for years and slowly disintegrate. However, it take the hands of someone to fashion and form them into something that represents something.
Ah, the good old 747 argument reworded... I really do suggest you read "The Blind Watchmaker" by Richard Dawkins. Perhaps that may alleviate some, if not all, of your questions. Not to be rude urbanlemur, but all of your questions are typical questions of Creationists. The problem is that they are misrepresentative of evolutionary theory. It plays on people's misunderstanding of the theory. Please, before you say it is unbelievable I suggest you do a little research on it. The most frustrating thing for me is to answer questions that are based on misrepresentative ideas. The Creation agenda poses questions such as these because, again, it plays on people's misunderstandings of evolution and science.
I've read the Bible, roughly three times, all I ask is that people read about evolution before posing questions such as these.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlemur
Ok, I'm done. Just some wild thoughts I decided to throw out at 6:00 am on a Sunday morning where I can't sleep cause I have a tremendous head cold. Have a great day and God bless.
Maybe I should move to England or another part of Europe..... tell me it isn't this bad over there
Fundamentalism and rejection of scientific facts are marginalised and jeered at more commonly, but there is still a small element of it nonetheless.
I'm sure there are people here, and in the rest of Europe, that would agree with some of the posts on this thread, but fortunately they are not taken seriously by the public at large, and probably have less of a voice than they might expect in the US.
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) but nobody has observed one. What about meteors that have struck the earth? Nobody has witnessed one, but we can accept that it has happened from craters that have appeared on the earth's surface, scorch marks etc etc
