Can athiest be spiritual? (soul, hell, atheist, quote)

[patrick9965]

I found this really funny:
Can Atheists Still Be Spiritual? Oprah Prompts Debate

but then it made me think - is it for real... can athiest be spiritual. I personally think being an athiest does not in anyway change the reality. If God exists then an athiest can be very much spiritual and if not then there is no way an athiest can be spiritual because spiritualism doesn't exist. But here is a thought which is weird... MOST athiests will deny God because it cannot be proved scientifically or it has no tangible existence. that raises an important question... how can one feel spiritual when spiritualism cannot be proved scientifically or has no tangible experience? there is a conflict here. If it is the mind that is making you feel those spiritual experiences then maybe athiests should call it "feeling minditual" or something. Your thoughts?

[agnostic soldier]

It depends on what you mean by spiritual. In the supernatural sense, atheists don't have spiritual experiences, although atheists can be spiritual in the sense that Diana Nyad was talking about. Believers don't have a monopoly on experiencing awe and wonder.

[Nozzferrahhtoo]

Originally Posted by patrick9965

that raises an important question... how can one feel spiritual when spiritualism cannot be proved scientifically or has no tangible experience? there is a conflict here. If it is the mind that is making you feel those spiritual experiences then maybe athiests should call it "feeling minditual" or something. Your thoughts?

You have pretty much summed it up so no more thoughts can be added. Just restarted. It clearly relies on what you even mean by "spiritual" and if you use a religious definition for that then yes, clearly atheists are not spiritual.

The problem is that those atheists who claim to be spiritual are simply working off a different meaning of the word. As such the "conflict" you describe exists only in your imagination, not in reality.

You suggest a new word for it. And on paper I am entirely in agreement with that. But creating and disseminating new words on a whim is not easy. And the fact is that despite the metaphysical nonsense and baggage the word "spiritual" comes with, it is alas the word we are stuck with.

But for the average "spiritual atheist" being "spiritual" constitutes nothing more than exploration of what it means to be a human in this universe. What implications that has for us and how we use our life. And an exploration and training of our moment to moment attentions and consciousness and learning in a way that goes beyond what the average Joe on the street mindlessly trudging through life engages in.

THAT is all we generally mean by spiritual and not one bit of it requires we subscribe to any notion on insufficient or.... in the case of the claims around the existence of god..... entirely absent substantiation.

[patrick9965]

You guys are right. Definition of spiritual is a must for this discussion. Awe and wonder are great experiences that can be categorized as spiritual but think about it. Spiritual means that these experiences are effecting your soul or spirit and atheists believe they effect your brain and hence it cannot be the same thing for the athiest and non-athiest. The very belief in Soul or spirit points to unseen and hence a possibility that there is a diety called God?

[patrick9965]

The word spiritualism has a certain affiliation with God and religion and that's why the discussion in the first place. Why not call awe an experience or a good/great expereince or use some other word instead of calling it a spiritual experience.

[Nozzferrahhtoo]

Originally Posted by patrick9965

The very belief in Soul or spirit points to unseen and hence a possibility that there is a diety called God?

Again it is down to the definition and you are clinging to the definition that incorporates a "soul". For atheists the "soul" is nothing more than our capacity for consciousness and self awareness which appears to differentiate us from most of the animal kingdom.

We do not believe this "soul" is distinct from the body or brain or that any deity put it there. But supernatural unsubstantiated nonsense aside, we are otherwise talking about the same thing. Our humanity and what it means to be human.

It is a choice between a pedantic clinging to the etymology behind the origins of the word "spiritual" or an open consideration of the fact that the word is used by different groups, today, to mean different things, today.

I recommend the latter. The former serves to do nothing except maybe some ego masturbation by attempting to use linguistic trickery to suggest that atheists implicitly believe in a god when in fact they do not. Alas there are all too many on this forum who want to do just that.... misconstrue some aspect of how atheists talk, think, or live as being an implicit but denied belief in god.

Originally Posted by patrick9965

The word spiritualism has a certain affiliation with God and religion and that's why the discussion in the first place. Why not call awe an experience or a good/great expereince or use some other word instead of calling it a spiritual experience.

Because once again that is not how language works. We do not simply make up a new word and expect the rest of the world to use it or understand it. With notable exceptions, the progress and change in language is slow and tedious. And the fact remains that while it would be nice to have better words for this subject, "Spiritual" is the one that is in common and vernacular usage. I too would like to see better words used that are divested of the unsubstantiated religious nonsense you refer to here. Alas I am not the dictator of how the worlds population speaks or relates to their language.

Words are constantly changing things. They are not fixed points mired in their etymological history.

[patrick9965]

You can very well say I believe in God and say that for me God is my brain and my body and my consciousiness and everything in collective instead of some diety and that I am God and collectively this and that together and masterbation all together is God but the word God is of no importance and the etymology is of no importance. God no God, athiest no athiest... you guys are just hell bent to prove the other is wrong! I give two Moderator cut: inappropriate language whether you believe in God or not or whether you are athiest or not. I just hate confusion and fighting to prove that athiests are better than believers and vice versa. You don't have to believe in God and you don't have to be an athiest either! Besides these are just words right. In the end, we are just pure warriors proving we are better than the other and we are more right than you are. Isn't that right mr right

[patrick9965]

Why use a word which is so confusing and totally contradicts the very belief or no-belieft you subscribe to. You don't need a whole new word or language... just be more sensible in word-selection. I'll give you some ideas:

- The sunrise totally gave me a masterbation like feeling
- Sunset was as good as sex
- It totally touched my brain
- It caused certain inexplicable sensation in my body
- I felt like I had a soul (like in a sarcastic way)

Well... that was sarcasm... but! there are better ways to describe what you are feeling and maybe there are better more precise words also. Do the research!

[patrick9965]

The whole idea of this discussion is the use of two contradictory words by athiests. Let me start a new thread to discuss with you guys a word best suited to describing feelings you don't understand. I am sorry... I mean finding a word for feelings you do understand.

[bUU]

This is remarkably a political issue. Dogmatic and otherwise supernatural-believing theists have a vested interest in trying to disparage any spiritual alternative to their make-believe, power-play constructs.