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Old 12-10-2013, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA, now.
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I certainly do.

Do you want to expound on the why's or why not?

Please, only those that think he was a real, living person that existed.

Just...Do ya think he walked on water? (I think Peter did, too.)
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Old 12-10-2013, 09:52 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
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I think the magician Criss Angel really walked on water:


Criss Angel Walks on Water - YouTube
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Old 12-10-2013, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
I think the magician Criss Angel really walked on water
Well, after all, "greater works than these will you do in my name" ;-)
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,548 posts, read 37,151,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
I think the magician Criss Angel really walked on water:
Not a chance, and neither did Jesus...


Criss Angel Walk On Water Trick Revealed - YouTube
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:12 AM
 
5,187 posts, read 6,945,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
I certainly do.

Do you want to expound on the why's or why not?

Please, only those that think he was a real, living person that existed.

Just...Do ya think he walked on water? (I think Peter did, too.)

I believe Jesus did, however not Peter.
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA, now.
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Fascinating, perry...tell me your thoughts re Peter.
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
I certainly do.
Do you think that Joseph Smith was visited by the angel Maroni and led him to the golden plates containing the Book of Mormon?

You have precisely the same grounds for believing that as you do in believing that someone named Jesus walked on water a couple thousand years ago. Those grounds are....someone claimed that it was so.

You are"certain" that Jesus walked on water based on the unsupported assertion of the new testament writers, why are you any less certain on behalf of Smith's claims? Or any of the claims about any other religion?
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Old 12-10-2013, 11:01 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
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He (Simon Peter/ Cephas) tried (Matthew 14. 28 on) but sank. Interestingly, neither Mark nor John have the Sinking Simon episode, which indicates that this is yet another of Matthew's silly additions to the story. An interesting slant on how (notably in Matthew, who also has the slagging off of Simon -Matthew 16.22)- by Jesus which again none of the others have) Simon was regarded with some ambivalence by early Christianity.

But what interests me is that Luke does NOT have the walking on the water. There it isn't, at Luke 9. 40 onwards where the disciples should be boating back to Capernaum and Jesus catches them up walking on the water. It isn't there. It is in Matthew and Mark, and moreover in John. That should indicate that Luke ought to have it before him in his copy of the synoptic gospels, though without the Mark/ Matthew additions, of course and without Matthew's nativity as Luke could never have written what he did at Luke 2. 1-20 if he'd had Matthew's nativity in front of him.

And maybe that's the clue. It is rather a daring suggestion, and I have some doubts, but it is the only suggestion I can think of as to why Luke didn't have the walking on water. As I say, Luke doesn't have the Mark/Matthew additions, such as the two similar feastings and the Syrio - phoenecian woman. That suggests that they were not in the Synoptic original and so Luke reflects more how the synoptic original read. Since he doesn't have the walking on water, and I find it hard to believe that he would simply omit it as being too fantastical, I suggest that it wasn't part of the gospel story and perhaps only started to circulate after Luke's time.

At any rate, the synoptic original which Mark most resembles, was updated with all the material common to Matthew and Mark, including the walking on water. Matthew of course went even further, adding the star and Bethlehem massacre, sinking Simon, the Shekel eating fish, the walking dead and the resurrection appearance.

But how then could John agree with them? Surely that proves it must be true? This is where I have to be a bit daring. I have already proposed that there were some 'floating' stories about Jesus, as well as collections of sayings, like the 'gospel of Thomas' or the 'Q' document, which Matthew and Luke both used, rather differently, in their gospel revisions.

One of these 'floating' stories said that Jesus appeared after his burial in solid form, showing the wounds of crucifixion and eating a bit of fish. Luke and John both pick up on this and use it in their Gospels (Matthew doesn't His disciples leave immediately to meet Jesus in Galilee). But while the appearance after the crucifixion is at the same time (though there are serious discrepancies in the telling) the eating of the bit of fish is totally contradictory. Luke has it that same evening (24.43) but John has it in a totally different context and time in Galilee (21. 12) This is more providing the fishers with fish and bread for breakfast but the relation with Luke is rather pointed up by the preceding episode of the miraculous haul of fish (John 21.11) which Luke also has, but again in a totally different place - the calling of the disciples (Luke 5.6) and since neither Mark nor Matthew has that story, it must have been added by Luke to his text (1) .

Therefore, is it not likely that the miraculous tale of walking on water might have been one of these 'floating' stories about Jesus, though this was in a definite context - the return to Capernaum after the transfiguration (though John does not have that transfiguration, being something that appears only in the synoptic gospel text) and so while it was made part of the Mark/Matthew additions (which Luke didn't have) John also added it to his gospel.

Luke didn't come across it or, if he did, he thought it a bit too fantastical. At any rate he did not use it in his rewriting of the synoptic original.

So Luke's gospels did not have the walking of water story as a floating story as used by John, not as used as part of the identical Mark/Matthew addition, none of which appear in Luke.

If that is correct, it means of course that the walking on water was never part of the original tales about Jesus as Christ, let alone Jesus as failed messiah; and that means, of course, that it never happened.

Have a lovely Christmas, all

(1) though Matthew does use a simile of a netful of fish as a parable

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 12-10-2013 at 11:38 AM..
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Old 12-10-2013, 11:12 AM
 
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Yes. And I like to listen to Leonard Cohen's "Suzanne" and think about Him doing something wonderful and impossible in the presence of a chosen few.
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Old 12-10-2013, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA, now.
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I find it believable for mind over matter reasons.
Jesus and other Eastern yogis have advanced enough to know what reality is..atoms
vibrating at certain speeds with a certain # of electrons, certain distances apart to look
like substance or matter in this dimension...so you have certain properties and density
and textures of wood and air and water and fire.

So if one understands this completely...they could go thru walls, stop storms walk on water...realizing spiritual or non-physical laws are more powerful than physical laws ...
when realized with complete knowledge/insight to the core...mind, body and soul.
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