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The difference is...the "faith healers" and those that treat illness and injury while following some religious dogma, though wrong and misguided, truly believe they are doing what is best. Even though there can be terrible consequences...they do not intend to cause harm, and, in fact, actually are convinced the methods they employ are the best possible.
On the other hand...the scientists that are working on weapons, the delivery vehicles and guidance systems for loaded warheads, or the high explosive, nuclear, biological, or chemical load that will be carried by the warhead...they are FULLY AWARE of what is going to happen from what they are doing. They understand full well the death, destruction, suffering, and loss that will be caused by what they are working on.
Ignorance (because of religious dogma or any other reason), especially willful ignorance, has the potential to be bad, and that is a unfortunate derivative.
Moderator cut: Orphaned
Last edited by june 7th; 02-21-2014 at 06:48 AM..
Reason: Off topic. Does not address OP and has the potential to derail thread.
James 5:14-16 makes it sound a lot like they were doing exactly what God told them to do (or if that doesn't work, there are other references that seem to encourage faith healing).
You're right many verses are taken out of context, misinterpreted and misapplied. Same thing with the snake handlers IMO. The following verses have been cited in faith healing defense cases;
Exodus 15:26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the Lord thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the Lord that healeth thee.
Mark 5:34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.
Luke 18:16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
It seems prayer is kind of like that food that you need to douse in sauce to make it edible. Meaning that you pray and then seek scientific and/or medical knowledge and assistance to fix the problem.
Isn't this a rehash of something that was talked about many months ago? Why continue to repost this stuff?
yes...some parents are idiots. Many of them are also religious. I've known plenty of non-churchgoing parents that neglect and abuse their kids...should I say all atheists are horrible?
Good attempt that equating the two. The big glaring difference that you would like to deflect from is that the death of these two children were BECAUSE of their religion. Atheist parents don't abuse their children because of their atheism.
Good attempt that equating the two. The big glaring difference that you would like to deflect from is that the death of these two children were BECAUSE of their religion. Atheistparents don't abuse their children because of their atheism.
The difference is...the "faith healers" and those that treat illness and injury while following some religious dogma, though wrong and misguided, truly believe they are doing what is best. Even though there can be terrible consequences...they do not intend to cause harm, and, in fact, actually are convinced the methods they employ are the best possible.
But their victims are not innocent children without a say, but adults that are making a choice. A really stupid one, but a choice. These children didn't have a say or a choice.
These people have murdered two of their own children all in the name of religious ignorance. Two children are dead and only they know how much they suffered.
And, I'm sure they went on FB and asked all of their friends and familty to pray for their children. But, for some reason, their prayers didn't work. Go figure.
Actually, there is an underlying truth in the gibe. For example, I have an acquaintance who is an atheist. He lives his life utterly without regard to others. He is a criminal defense lawyer who doesn't even vaguely try to do a quality job for his clients; he makes no bones about it, all he wants to do is create enough of an appearance of caring about them so that he doesn't get fired or reported to the bar. He doesn't reveal to his seemingly endless string of female conquests (some of whom are almost 50 years younger) that he is carrying a life-threatening SDT. He enjoys trying to break up friends' marriages and relationships. It's all a big joke to him because existence is a meaningless joke to him. Obviously not every atheist is this way - but just as obviously, not every religious person is a faith-healing wacko. My acquaintance's atheistic perspective and his attitude toward life and other persons go hand in glove, whereas there would be a huge disconnect if he were a sincere believer and held this attitude toward life and other persons. We read about stories like the one cited in the OP precisely because they are aberrations. If my atheist acquaintance were to abuse a child and offer the excuse that "Well, hey, it's just a piece of meat with no more inherent value that a baboon anyway," we'd be reading about him.
If I were dying and leaving a young child behind, I would certainly prefer for the child to be raised in a family where the parents were strong believers than in one where the parents were atheists; either set of parents might be just fine, but I'd trust my child to the believers because I do believe that, on average, parents with a religious perspective would be more likely to regard the child as a sacred trust and to instill important values. I would obviously do my homework and wouldn't entrust the child to wackos who were members of some faith-healing or snake-handling cult, just as I wouldn't entrust them to family where dad had 12 arrests for abuse, or to a family where mom thought atheist Madalyn Murray O'Hare had been a model mother (see her son's description of his home life at Murder of Madalyn Murray O'Hair). Whatever point is being made on this thread, it boils down to nothing more than that some religious believers are dangerously crazy ... as are some atheists. Religion doesn't make people this way any more than atheism does, but either religion or atheism can provide fertile soil for delusions to blossom. Atheists bristle and resort to excuses when it is pointed out that Josef Stalin was an atheist whose atheism was one of the foundations of his reign of terror, but no Christian would be so goofy as to suggest that every atheist is a Stalin waiting to happen. Yet virulent anti-Christians love to suggest that there is some connection between folks like those in the OP and Christianity in general. It's really quite humorous.
Actually, there is an underlying truth in the gibe. For example, I have an acquaintance who is an atheist. He lives his life utterly without regard to others. He is a criminal defense lawyer who doesn't even vaguely try to do a quality job for his clients; he makes no bones about it, all he wants to do is create enough of an appearance of caring about them so that he doesn't get fired or reported to the bar. He doesn't reveal to his seemingly endless string of female conquests (some of whom are almost 50 years younger) that he is carrying a life-threatening SDT. He enjoys trying to break up friends' marriages and relationships. It's all a big joke to him because existence is a meaningless joke to him. Obviously not every atheist is this way - but just as obviously, not every religious person is a faith-healing wacko. My acquaintance's atheistic perspective and his attitude toward life and other persons go hand in glove, whereas there would be a huge disconnect if he were a sincere believer and held this attitude toward life and other persons. We read about stories like the one cited in the OP precisely because they are aberrations. If my atheist acquaintance were to abuse a child and offer the excuse that "Well, hey, it's just a piece of meat with no more inherent value that a baboon anyway," we'd be reading about him.
If I were dying and leaving a young child behind, I would certainly prefer for the child to be raised in a family where the parents were strong believers than in one where the parents were atheists; either set of parents might be just fine, but I'd trust my child to the believers because I do believe that, on average, parents with a religious perspective would be more likely to regard the child as a sacred trust and to instill important values. I would obviously do my homework and wouldn't entrust the child to wackos who were members of some faith-healing or snake-handling cult, just as I wouldn't entrust them to family where dad had 12 arrests for abuse, or to a family where mom thought atheist Madalyn Murray O'Hare had been a model mother (see her son's description of his home life at Murder of Madalyn Murray O'Hair). Whatever point is being made on this thread, it boils down to nothing more than that some religious believers are dangerously crazy ... as are some atheists. Religion doesn't make people this way any more than atheism does, but either religion or atheism can provide fertile soil for delusions to blossom. Atheists bristle and resort to excuses when it is pointed out that Josef Stalin was an atheist whose atheism was one of the foundations of his reign of terror, but no Christian would be so goofy as to suggest that every atheist is a Stalin waiting to happen. Yet virulent anti-Christians love to suggest that there is some connection between folks like those in the OP and Christianity in general. It's really quite humorous.
300,000,000+ people in this country and you base your opinion of 10 - 15% of the 300+ million on one person?
And if your child you leave to these people has an appendix about to rupture, do you want them to pray, or take the child to a hospital?
And of the 60% of "Americans" believe in Noah's mobile zoo, recognize that 22% of Americans are not christians, indicating that of christians are even dumber than the statistic indicates.
6 out of 10 believe the ark nonsense
2 out of 10 are not christian, so pretty safe to say the think it is nonsense.
That means that 6 out of 8 or a whopping 75% of those that identify themselves as christian believe this nonsense, so I had a 3 out of 4 chance of guessing right. Congrats, you're in the smarter end of the believe in fairy tales crowd.
Damn I wish I hadn't calculated that, proof I'm surrounded by idiots to even a greater extent than I realized.
I'm not at all religious...I just really dig some of the Christian philosophical concepts..."Love Each Other" & "Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated"...really good stuff.
We rarely agree...but if those polls really do represent the genuine mindset of THAT percentage of the U.S. population...WOW...I admit I do find that to be disappointing. I'm not all tweaked out over it...but I will cop to feeling way less than good about it. I didn't think the numbers were anywhere near close to that.
Oh, well...things aren't always the way I'd prefer them to be.
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I wish I hadn't calculated that, proof I'm surrounded by idiots to even a greater extent than I realized.
