Changing my mind about religion? (Buddhist, atheist, gospels, bible)

[StubbornV]

So I grew up as a kid to be Christian, but never fully believed in it. It just seemed so far fetched. These last few months of my life have been very rough, and sometimes on the lowest of low days I say a quick prayer like I was taught in Sunday school. It's weird because whenever I do those quick prayers, something ALWAYS changes and somehow makes my situation better.

Now I do not know weather to believe this is a mysterious man in the sky doing this, or maybe luck, or something like coincidence. I am not sure what to believe.

What do you think?

Also I did not know where to post this and did not want to register to another forum so I figured I would try posting it here before signing up for some lame forums for only this quesiton.

Thanks Guys

TLDR: I say a quick prayer things seem to get better fairly quickly. Miracle? God? Coincidence?

[mordant]

You don't have to "sign up" separately for other forums, simply post in the forum appropriate for the topic.

You'll get all sorts of answers on this religion & spirituality forum because we have theists, atheists and everything in between.

As an atheist, I will argue that it's not the magic sky daddy. How specific are your prayers? I'm willing to bet, not very. "God help me today". "God bless me today". "Help me feel better".

I guarantee you that if you pray specifically for the sweet thang you're attracted to to notice you and invite your advances, or for Professor X's accent not to be so impenetrable to you, or for your car's blown gasket to fix itself, you'll have a success rate that is indistinguishable from random happenstance.

[nateswift]

I would not venture to say that it is God answering your prayers, but I do believe there is a spirit active in the world that impels us toward a concern for the well-being of everyone and this could be a way to get your attention. Religion itsself is often pretty far-fetched, but maybe it is time to examine the underlying message and what it would mean in your life.

[UsAll]

Originally Posted by StubbornV

So I grew up as a kid to be Christian, but never fully believed in it. It just seemed so far fetched. These last few months of my life have been very rough, and sometimes on the lowest of low days I say a quick prayer like I was taught in Sunday school. It's weird because whenever I do those quick prayers, something ALWAYS changes and somehow makes my situation better.

Now I do not know weather to believe this is a mysterious man in the sky doing this, or maybe luck, or something like coincidence. I am not sure what to believe.

What do you think?

Also I did not know where to post this and did not want to register to another forum so I figured I would try posting it here before signing up for some lame forums for only this quesiton.

Thanks Guys

TLDR: I say a quick prayer things seem to get better fairly quickly. Miracle? God? Coincidence?

A very very very general question that will open you up to getting a wide wide wide range of views and much proselytizing thrown at you by the online world-at-large.

This should be posted in the General Forums (within the Religion and Spirituality general sub-forum). But be prepared to get preached to from all angles by every conceivable point-of-view.

Of course, let me just say (in all intellectual honesty): Who can possibly answer THIS question in a way that you know that they are giving a truthful and correct answer? Even if there is, in fact, a supreme creator being of some type or nature and then one who intervenes in human affairs (i.e., a so-called "theistic" god) versus one who doesn't intervene in human affairs (i.e., a so-called "deistic" god), it can be validly proclaimed that said "God/god" never communicates with any of us nor manifests itself to any of us nor engages in demonstrative behavior or acts with any of us in an unambiguous & undeniable way that ALL of us of sound mind and intelligence can agree upon as being a "God experience". Even if there is, in fact, a supreme creator being or some type or nature, said being apparently chooses to remain silent, hidden, invisible, undetectable, undiscernable, and to make itself, in effect, not knowable to us in any real way. All that anyone can offer up (as to commentary about such a purported "supreme creator being") is "belief" or "faith". But "belief" or "faith" is not necessarily or not always the same as what can be called true knowledge . . . though it has been said that there is no such thing as "absolute knowledge" but, at best, only "degrees of probability" that can be assigned to any phenomenon. It is reasonable & intellectually honest to offer up the proposition that the universe or life-at-large, as we experience it through the course of our lives, operates and is experienced OVERALL (in the big picture) as being just what it would be like as if there were no "God/god" (i.e., as though there were, in fact, no overarching authority having dominion, rule, and control over all that is & one who, on top of that, then meets out "rewards" and "punishments" to us or one who "answers prayers"). No one can validate or prove such as assertion in an undeniable way to the satisfaction of all of us. "Believing" or "having "faith" is not (or not always or not necessarily) the same as knowing something to be true. The word "believe", when used in this context, is a shorthand way of saying "make-believe" . . . literally so (i.e., saying that the particular person makes themselves believe things to be true that they do not know with certitude or reasonable certitude to be true and real . . . but they "make" or compel or push themselves to embrace the idea anyway, regardless of any doubts or uncertainties or disproofs and proclaim it to themselves and to others as true anyway). That is the best that can be said about the matter. Anything else offered up to you by believers of whatever "faith" is just that: mere faith. And they may be right or they may be wrong or they may be partly right and partly wrong at the same time. Who can tell? My view is that "absence of evidence" is very often indicative of "evidence of absence" (though not always), so therefore skepticism or lack-of-active-belief is justifiable, reasonable and warranted until and unless justifiable and valid evidence is offered up which give one reason to reconsider.

Again, as stated earlier to you: This should be posted in the General Forums (within the Religion and Spirituality general sub-forum). But be prepared to get preached to from all angles by every conceivable point-of-view.


Best wishes in your search for what can be truly deemed as "truth".

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by StubbornV

So I grew up as a kid to be Christian, but never fully believed in it. It just seemed so far fetched. These last few months of my life have been very rough, and sometimes on the lowest of low days I say a quick prayer like I was taught in Sunday school. It's weird because whenever I do those quick prayers, something ALWAYS changes and somehow makes my situation better.

Now I do not know weather to believe this is a mysterious man in the sky doing this, or maybe luck, or something like coincidence. I am not sure what to believe.

What do you think?

Also I did not know where to post this and did not want to register to another forum so I figured I would try posting it here before signing up for some lame forums for only this quesiton.

Thanks Guys

TLDR: I say a quick prayer things seem to get better fairly quickly. Miracle? God? Coincidence?

I could come up with some handy rationalist explanation, but I really don't know. What I do know is that I have been under the cosh at times and eventually things have got better. And of course, I don't pray at all.

Perhaps the question to keep asking is not what we think, but what you think.

[whoppers]

StubbornV, I have always seen the act prayer in order to achieve changes in ones life as the highest form of prideful hubris, and I'll tell you why. You may agree or disagree.

Let's assume that there is an all-powerful, all-good God that is in control of the Universe. Let us also say that within the bounds of causality and God's Will, things happen for reasons and perhaps - just perhaps - God set the Universe in motion many eons ago with the super-human ability to see how things will turn out by being able to ascertain causality in all facets of life. I do tend to follow Thomas Hobbes' view of causality and the lack of Free Will as a result (you may have to take a peek at the beginning of his work Leviathan to confirm whether this hypothesis is feasible or not; for those looking for a very good argument against Free Will that is very thoughtful, you might also do well to check this out).

Now, for us to tell God that he's not doing a bang-up job, and that you really wish he'd change some stuff JUST for you, is already a bit pride and arrogant. For what must God do to achieve such goals in your life? He must physically alter all the known laws of science and causality to change the way the world is - just to answer your prayer. That's a pretty tall request to make of a god, I think. Would God (no matter what god) have the ability to do this, let alone the desire - merely for the prayers of a supplicant? Imagine how many times he would have to rip the fabric of time every time someone asked for more money, or what have you.

It is for this reason that I ceased - a long time ago - praying with the intention of asking a god to change the way things are. It's just too filled with pride, and to be frank: too unrealistic.

The Lord's Prayer, as set out by Jesus, tells believers to pray in secret and to not ask for anything beyond what is in the Lord's Prayer, for God already knows what you need. Prayer is not necessary.

Those are my thoughts on the matter, anyways.

[mordant]

Originally Posted by whoppers

It is for this reason that I ceased - a long time ago - praying with the intention of asking a god to change the way things are. It's just too filled with pride, and to be frank: too unrealistic.

The Lord's Prayer, as set out by Jesus, tells believers to pray in secret and to not ask for anything beyond what is in the Lord's Prayer, for God already knows what you need. Prayer is not necessary.

Prayer as a form of meditation, primarily to change the one praying rather than circumstances, has long been recognized by Christian mystics. It is more or less the Christian version of Buddhist meditation practice.

However, prayer as petition, IS in fact taught in scripture, in fact, quite explicitly so in, .e.g., Jesus' parable of the unjust judge. That parable doesn't mean to say that god is an unjust judge, but that if a persistent nobody can get action from such a judge, how much EASIER it should be by contrast to get a rise out of that loving, caring god up there. "Ask, and you shall receive". "If you have the tiniest bit of faith you can command mountains to move, and they will". Sure, this is hubris of the first order, but the Bible teaches it.

So I commend you for rejecting this pernicious teaching of both scripture and most of orthodox Christianity.

[whoppers]

Originally Posted by mordant

Prayer as a form of meditation, primarily to change the one praying rather than circumstances, has long been recognized by Christian mystics. It is more or less the Christian version of Buddhist meditation practice.

However, prayer as petition, IS in fact taught in scripture, in fact, quite explicitly so in, .e.g., Jesus' parable of the unjust judge. That parable doesn't mean to say that god is an unjust judge, but that if a persistent nobody can get action from such a judge, how much EASIER it should be by contrast to get a rise out of that loving, caring god up there. "Ask, and you shall receive". "If you have the tiniest bit of faith you can command mountains to move, and they will". Sure, this is hubris of the first order, but the Bible teaches it.

So I commend you for rejecting this pernicious teaching of both scripture and most of orthodox Christianity.

Good points.

You are correct about the Gospel of Mark insisting that petitioning prayer is effective (and to some degree, the Gospel of John - but THAT Gospel is all kinds of whacked craziness; I generally think the Gospel of John should be discounted in any discussion of what a possibly historical Jesus might have said), and I suppose that's one view from one author. The passage I was thinking of is found in the so-called "Great Instruction" of the Gospel of Matthew - so perhaps we have two very different points of view here. The Jesus of Matthew is very insistent that all religious practices be done in secret, and that one should put faith that God already knows what one needs. Personally, I'm not a fan of harmonizing the Gospels, so I always see four different portrayals of Jesus.

So yes, it is found in Scripture in one Gospel, but is directly contradicted in Scripture in another Gospel ha ha! What else is new, right? I suppose I should give priority to Mark, since his Gospel was the earliest written of the four canonical Gospels.


And thank you for the end comment heh heh.

[Amaznjohn]

Originally Posted by StubbornV

So I grew up as a kid to be Christian, but never fully believed in it. It just seemed so far fetched. These last few months of my life have been very rough, and sometimes on the lowest of low days I say a quick prayer like I was taught in Sunday school. It's weird because whenever I do those quick prayers, something ALWAYS changes and somehow makes my situation better.

Now I do not know weather to believe this is a mysterious man in the sky doing this, or maybe luck, or something like coincidence. I am not sure what to believe.

What do you think?

Also I did not know where to post this and did not want to register to another forum so I figured I would try posting it here before signing up for some lame forums for only this quesiton.

Thanks Guys

TLDR: I say a quick prayer things seem to get better fairly quickly. Miracle? God? Coincidence?

What you could ask yourself is why would God care about your rough patches when millions of children die every year from disease, starvation, and natural disasters. To suggest that God has helped you but not these children would be quite an elitist attitude, not something to be proud about. A good God would likely save these children before smoothing out the rough patches in your life. Since children are still dying....well, you can follow the logic.

[Atkutuq]

Originally Posted by StubbornV

So I grew up as a kid to be Christian, but never fully believed in it. It just seemed so far fetched. These last few months of my life have been very rough, and sometimes on the lowest of low days I say a quick prayer like I was taught in Sunday school. It's weird because whenever I do those quick prayers, something ALWAYS changes and somehow makes my situation better.

Now I do not know weather to believe this is a mysterious man in the sky doing this, or maybe luck, or something like coincidence. I am not sure what to believe.

What do you think?

Also I did not know where to post this and did not want to register to another forum so I figured I would try posting it here before signing up for some lame forums for only this quesiton.

Thanks Guys

TLDR: I say a quick prayer things seem to get better fairly quickly. Miracle? God? Coincidence?

Call on me... in the day of trouble - I will deliver you & you shall glorify ME!

God is merely fulfilling His Promise He Made to You! That is why you get "relief"; It changes, It gets better.

When you learn to accept God's promises are TRUTH; Then you will begin to understand, God can't Lie!

You prayed - something changes & ALWAYS makes the situation better.

This is how God works. (Matthew 7:7) We ask - We receive. Just like Jesus said: SHALL

My suggestion; Ask for something specific - with more details.

Watch how stunned you are when you get the exact answer you requested.

Prayer(s) are the Greatest proof we have that God hears & answers us.

Let me take the time to be a bit more specific. A personal short story

Dec 26th 1972 - I quit my job @ 10:30 am. I was totally disgusted with management. so I quit. I Knew I couldn't afford to quit; I knew I would be out of work for a few weeks. I could not afford to loose this much money. I went out on a limb of faith only.

When I quit the job; I made my plea to the Lord. I need a job! I am so sick of working with hundreds of people - I am sick of being inside in some corner 8 hours every day.

Thus I made my request(s) specific. I need a job. 1. I want to work outside. 2.I want to work with one person instead of hundreds. 3. While I'm at it (requesting). I need/want MORE MONEY!

A week went by and the union hall gave me a call to go to work for abc (company) A huge new school. My reply was ok. I will accept this job. Then I got on the phone to God. I told YOU... I do not want to work with hundreds of people on a job inside. I don't want this. I want you to help me get the job I want. 15 minutes later. The union hall called me back and said; forget it. That job was cancelled. I smiled very big and said Thanks (God) for your help.

A week later I got another call from the union Hall - Go to work for XYZ company - A factory.

I said Ok to the Union dispatcher; Lord... this is totally out of the question. I am sick of having to work these type jobs. I want to be outside with one person making more money if possible. Twenty minutes later the Union Hall called back and said. Never mind. I rejoiced and thanked God!

3 days later. The phone rang. The Union Hall said go to work At this address for this company. I said Ok.

The next day I went to work. Not knowing what to expect. Whoa. I am now working outside; with 1 person. High Voltage Cable Splicing and it was massive double time job!

Ask & you SHALL receive is the Promise Jesus Made. It has always worked for me for decades!

All ya gotta do is believe with no doubts. But rest assured God will TEST YOU! count on it.