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I really regret, as I often do, saying, " Sometimes I
Despise
Christianity". I don't really. Never. Bad use of the King's English. I'm
just so often very disappointed with it.
Just asking....what would you say the 'disappointment' is based on? Is it perhaps how it orbits around the meaning of 'love'? Is it abject disillusionment?
You forgot: 5) there are different levels of maturity among believers.
This would look a lot less like a cop-out if I ever saw someone say, "This is what I firmly believe to be true, but I would not be surprised if, as I mature in Christ, I reject this belief." It only ever seems to get used to defend the speaker's beliefs by asserting superior maturity in all those that agree with his or her doctrine, and never as a recognition that their position is something that they will grow out of when they become more Christlike...
That did not answer the other part of my question. How do you know it's right? Prove your version is correct or that other versions aren't. Otherwise I could claim my translation is correct, and then simply say it's correct because I say so. Doesn't mean it is.
That did not answer the other part of my question. How do you know it's right? Prove your version is correct or that other versions aren't. Otherwise I could claim my translation is correct, and then simply say it's correct because I say so. Doesn't mean it is.
You can get a concordance of the Greek and search for, oh, say, "psuchi" for "soul" and "psuchikos" for "soulish" and see how they translated those two words.
Some translations translate "psuchi" as "life," but "life" is "zoe" in Greek.
For instance, the King James has for "psuchi":
heart 2x
life 40x
mind 3x
soul 58x
In Greek heart is actually "kardia"
"life" is "zoe"
"mind" is "nuos"
"soul" is psuchi
The Concordant Literal New Testament properly translated "psuchi" as "soul" in all its occurrences.
For "psuchikon" (soulish) the adjectival form of "psuchi" the KJV translated it as:
natural 4x
sensual 2x
The Concordant Version has it as "soulish."
For apsuchon (souless) the KJV translated it "things without life".
As you can see, there is a lot of cross-wiring in the KJV. As you continue using the concordance you will see how the problem gets worse with words like AIWN and AIWNIOS and all manner of other Greek words.
This would look a lot less like a cop-out if I ever saw someone say, "This is what I firmly believe to be true, but I would not be surprised if, as I mature in Christ, I reject this belief." It only ever seems to get used to defend the speaker's beliefs by asserting superior maturity in all those that agree with his or her doctrine, and never as a recognition that their position is something that they will grow out of when they become more Christlike...
Just sayin'...
-NoCapo
Yes, but there are many levels of maturity in the body of Christ believers. Some come into the faith a week ago and can't be expected to know all the secrets (some translations say "mysteries) of Paul's evangel or all about our future allotment, all about grace, conciliation, reconciliation etc. etc. whereas some of the ones who have been in the faith many years and have studied these things through should be expected to have a better understanding. You see that, right?
As I exchanged my KJV for the Concordant literal New Testament I began to see things I never saw before. I don't think any believer becomes fully mature. But as we mature we leave behind the things of immaturity.
Yes, but there are many levels of maturity in the body of Christ believers. Some come into the faith a week ago and can't be expected to know all the secrets (some translations say "mysteries) of Paul's evangel or all about our future allotment, all about grace, conciliation, reconciliation etc. etc. whereas some of the ones who have been in the faith many years and have studied these things through should be expected to have a better understanding. You see that, right?
As I exchanged my KJV for the Concordant literal New Testament I began to see things I never saw before. I don't think any believer becomes fully mature. But as we mature we leave behind the things of immaturity.
But both you and Vizio, for example, would argue that your view is the mature one, and neither of you would accept that if you just grow more mature you will abandon your theology and adopt that of the other. Both of you assume that your theology is more mature, or more correct, more 'meat' and less 'milk' than the other, and Mystic thinks you both have a long maturation to go, before you get to his position.
It really appears that this is less of an argument and more of a dismissive pat on the head to anyone who disagrees with you. You'll understand when you are "older" in the faith...
If you really believe that maturity produces major doctrinal shifts, what do you expect will be different about your doctrine if you study and really apply yourself to experiencing and understanding god? Will greater maturity lead you back to a doctrine of hellfire? Or will it lead you to an understanding that the scriptures are all man-made and you just need to experience unity with the universal mind of Christ? Or do you expect that your current beliefs will remain largely unchanged as you mature, because they are already a good approximation for absolute truth? If it is the latter, then it really does seem like an excuse to brush off the objections and questions of others...
But both you and Vizio, for example, would argue that your view is the mature one, and neither of you would accept that if you just grow more mature you will abandon your theology and adopt that of the other. Both of you assume that your theology is more mature, or more correct, more 'meat' and less 'milk' than the other, and Mystic thinks you both have a long maturation to go, before you get to his position.
It really appears that this is less of an argument and more of a dismissive pat on the head to anyone who disagrees with you. You'll understand when you are "older" in the faith...
If you really believe that maturity produces major doctrinal shifts, what do you expect will be different about your doctrine if you study and really apply yourself to experiencing and understanding god? Will greater maturity lead you back to a doctrine of hellfire? Or will it lead you to an understanding that the scriptures are all man-made and you just need to experience unity with the universal mind of Christ? Or do you expect that your current beliefs will remain largely unchanged as you mature, because they are already a good approximation for absolute truth? If it is the latter, then it really does seem like an excuse to brush off the objections and questions of others...
-NoCapo
As my daughter used to say "Oh what e-v-e-r!"
No matter what I say you are going to go into a tirade and pick it apart. Whatever man. Whatever. Have fun with your life.
No matter what I say you are going to go into a tirade and pick it apart. Whatever man. Whatever. Have fun with your life.
Touchy! I am sorry you see this as a tirade, it was meant to spark some helpful self reflection. I am just pointing out that the way you are presenting yourself and your argument comes across as holier than thou and patronizing. If that isn't how you mean to present your case, then you might want to think about the approach.
You don't have to change anything, you can keep doing what you are doing. It is no skin off my nose. It just may not be doing you any favors, because your delivery is closing potential ears to your message. When you wonder why people are rejecting your ideas about God, consider that it may have nothing to do with the content at all...
Touchy! I am sorry you see this as a tirade, its meant to spark some helpful self reflection. I am just pointing out that the way you are presenting yourself and your argument comes across as holier than thou and patronizing. If that isn't how you mean to present your case, then you might want to think about the approach.
You don't have to change anything, you can keep doing what you are doing. It is no skin off my nose. It just may not be doing you any favors, because your delivery is closing potential ears to your message. When you wonder why people are rejecting your ideas about God, consider that it may have nothing to do with the content at all...
-NoCapo
You tried to make him think. I have noticed that when forced to think, many believers chose to just say, whatever you're hopeless. He had no good answer, so therefore you are a "bully" and he won't answer. It's a sad state of affairs really.
I saw a sign at a church here in Memphis that read, "Faith sees God, intellect does not". Even the church agrees, if you think about it, you wouldn't believe it! Sad, sad state of affairs.
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