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That is like saying if someone lives in a garage, visits car parks and in general does car things, that makes said person a car.
What makes one a Christian having a relationship with God thru Jesus.
You are not a Christian because you go to church. More than one atheist attends church. Ask them if they are a Christian.
Thanks at least for an example of misuse of analogy - using a fiddled one to try to prove something.
The analogy is imperfect because something (1)that is kept in a garage, is kept in car parks and generally exhibits the characteristics of a car, is a car.
A person who goes to church, acts like a Christian and says they are a Christian is a Christian, and I would not have the nerve to tell them that they are not. I doubt in fact that many atheists attend church. On a regular basis, anyway (2). Some who attend church may have their doubts. They may not really believe it deep down. But they do not realize it or they'd probably leave.
Until they do, they are indistinguishable from any other Christian and will only be revealed as Never having Been a Real Christian if their doubts exceed the capacity for denial, or their fruits become so rotten that a show of repentance will not do and they have to leave.
At least until the smell has cleared, and they can creep back into the Fold.
(1) I will put that down to sloppy thinking, not a deliberate attempt to make the analogy-subject impossible to see as a car
(2) I don't and I wouldn't go around asking which ones are atheist and those who put their hand up, ask whether they are Christian. I doubt that even you would carry out such a survey in your church.
Thanks at least for an example of misuse of analogy - using a fiddled one to try to prove something.
The analogy is imperfect because something (1)that is kept in a garage, is kept in car parks and generally exhibits the characteristics of a car, is a car.
A person who goes to church, acts like a Christian and says they are a Christian is a Christian, and I would not have the nerve to tell them that they are not. I doubt in fact that many atheists attend church. On a regular basis, anyway (2). Some who attend church may have their doubts. They may not really believe it deep down. But they do not realize it or they'd probably leave.
Until they do, they are indistinguishable from any other Christian and will only be revealed as Never having Been a Real Christian if their doubts exceed the capacity for denial, or their fruits become so rotten that a show of repentance will not do and they have to leave.
At least until the smell has cleared, and they can creep back into the Fold.
(1) I will put that down to sloppy thinking, not a deliberate attempt to make the analogy-subject impossible to see as a car
(2) I don't and I wouldn't go around asking which ones are atheist and those who put their hand up, ask whether they are Christian. I doubt that even you would carry out such a survey in your church.
I attended a church while I was an atheist, though I called myself simply an agnostic at the time to avoid the stigma. As a person who despises hypocrisy, I made a everyone aware of my views. Actually, I was more interested in the community and social aspects and to play softball. I finally grew tired of yelling "B.S." in my head so often during sermons.
I attended a church while I was an atheist, though I called myself simply an agnostic at the time to avoid the stigma. As a person who despises hypocrisy, I made a everyone aware of my views. Actually, I was more interested in the community and social aspects and to play softball. I finally grew tired of yelling "B.S." in my head so often during sermons.
Thank you. In fact we all went through a phase of post realization delusion that we only had to explain it all and everyone would say 'well, gosh. Now you have explained it all, it's so obvious to me now..'
In that case of course, the lapse from Christianity is in no doubt.
It is changing, as the 'deadness ' of this culture has become evident ,producing nothing of long term value; The most talented and productive people are Christians ,and they live longer too .
And you know this ... how, exactly? Besides, France is growing increasingly Muslim. Christian, that's debatable. It's not changing in Europe like you say. People are still largely secular and that isn't going to change.
As one brilliant Scotsman told me one, and I'll paraphrase here: Religion is most often used as a life preserver by the desperate; they need religion in order to find hope. One of the big reasons why America is so religious whereas -all- of the other industrialized Western nations are secular is because America has a crappy social safety net and an abysmal for-proft health care system. It's no wonder, then, why Americans turn to God for hope and certainty given that hitting hard times in America might mean losing your house, living in your car, seeing your kids living in abject poverty, having illnesses left untreated, being unable to obtain much needed medicines, etc.
Our religious nation produces more serial killers than any other nation. I saw a Wiki article that listed serial killers by country. I thought, hmm, France has quite a few, wow England has even more. But wait, where's the list for the United States? And then I saw a link - American serial killers had its own separate wiki page (LOL?) and my finger actually became fatigued spinning the mouse wheel to scroll down the list of serial killers in America.
America has the third worst wealth disparity in the industrial world, too. Only Brazil and Mexico are more unequal than the United States. And while the rich get fat on their own excessive wealth, the top 300,000 wage earners make more than the bottom 150 million combined. And that gap continues to widen as wages for average people stagnate and often does not even keep up with inflation (a person making minimum wage in the 60's had considerably more spending power than a person making minimum wage today).
This produces hundreds of millions of average working stiffs who spend the majority of their lives biting their nails, living on the edge of their seats, always terrified of a lay-off, downsizing, or a company closure.
Our nation is rife with fear and more than a little desperation. People hide it well, but it's there like a cancer lurking just beneath the skin. Growing numbers of Christians seem to be obsessed with the End Times, and if you listen through closed doors or around Christian dinner tables, you'll hear them talk about how the signs are at hand, Jesus is coming, and yes, the End really is nigh.
This is almost uniquely American - you don't see Europeans pulling stunts like Reverend Camping working everyone up into a religious frenzy by claiming he knows the exact date of the Rapture. The numbers of people victimized by that tripe is staggering. I remember reading about a lawsuit two daughters launched against their own mother - because she had taken all of their college money and had given it to Reverend Camping so he could buy more signs. After all, you don't need college if the Rapture is coming, right?
The only culture around here that is "dead" is ours - at the very least, it is ailing, and it very well could prove to be fatal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WisdomTooth 359
However I studied very widely including the histories of the truly long terms' greats' in history and in science,and found that only those who believed in God, had their work vindicated permanently ;The rest just seems like cardboard ,even decayed .
Oh really? Ya think? Einstein was no Christian. Neither was Gandhi. Over 90% of today's scientists are not believers, either. Julius Caesar wasn't a Christian nor was Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, nor was Qin Shi Huang (the "founder" of China and whom the country is named after), and thousands of other historical figures that could be termed "great."
Plus you're comparing the past - when, in the Western world, everyone was a Christian and even if you weren't, you kept it to yourself - with the present, which is far more secular. That's comparing your proverbial apples and oranges.
There is absolutely NO correlation between a person's belief in God and their place in history. None. Zero. Nada. Zilch. I can't stress that enough because it is unadulterated fantasy to make the assertion you just did.
It sounds to me like one of those Claims pulled out of the air which must be true until disproven; and it is a pretty fair bet that the disproof is hard to get.
I attended a church while I was an atheist, though I called myself simply an agnostic at the time to avoid the stigma. As a person who despises hypocrisy, I made a everyone aware of my views. Actually, I was more interested in the community and social aspects and to play softball. I finally grew tired of yelling "B.S." in my head so often during sermons.
You should've yelled it out loud. Might have livened things up a bit.
I attended a church while I was an atheist, though I called myself simply an agnostic at the time to avoid the stigma. As a person who despises hypocrisy, I made a everyone aware of my views. Actually, I was more interested in the community and social aspects and to play softball. I finally grew tired of yelling "B.S." in my head so often during sermons.
Everyone who attends a service in a building called a church should be yelling BS in their heads---Jesus' truths aren't ever taught in a building called a church.
Everyone who attends a service in a building called a church should be yelling BS in their heads---Jesus' truths aren't ever taught in a building called a church.
But they are if the building is called a Kingdom Hall, right?
The vast majority of Christians don't believe the stuff. They only pretend to believe because they don't want to be alienated from their community. They likely grew up as Christians and so most of their long-lasting relations are with other Christians. Better to just go with the status quo.
NOPE.
I feel more alienated now more than EVER.. I'm tempted at times to grab my guitar, pick up the PA, and start jamming again in bars for money..
The problem is, I can't sit there knowing what I know entertaining them encouraging them to get drunk.. I don't want to be an instrument to destroy someone's life.
I want to help bring people to the truth of God's Word and get away from that lifestyle.. I want to help people build up their lives with Faith in Christ.. help their marriages, etc.. not be used as a tool to destroy them.
So I guess it can be lonely at times, but Christ says count the costs.
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