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I am on God's side . . . NOT the Bible or any other revered and idolized book. God actually abides with us but too many seem oblivious to that fact and rely on books.
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Originally Posted by Freak80
Please elaborate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert M Prince
I have serious questions, since MysticPhd does not believe in the Bible but claims to believe in God within his but thinks that God will save him due to his own philosophical thinking. He appears to have NO belief in the God of the Old Testamant, which Jesus affirms over and over in the New Testament.
I do not understand why people insist on claiming that I do not believe the Bible just because I do not believe it is God's 100% inerrant and infallible word. What about this idea is so difficult to comprehend? The Bible CONTAINS inspirations from God. The inerrancy and infallibility nonsense is just a "precept and doctrine of men" that is preposterous . . . and it is completely unnecessary to belief in God and Jesus. Let's face it, Robert . . . you must not believe in the New Covenant since you keep insisting that my views are just my personal philosophy. I know Christ abides with us and His Holy Spirit (Comforter) is within our consciousness to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts."
As for the OT DESCRIPTIONS of God . . . they are the result of our ignorant ancient ancestors' superstitions and barbaric beliefs about God. It is those DESCRIPTIONS that I refuse to accept because they contradict the TRUE NATURE of God AS REVEALED by Christ. Christians are supposed to use Christ as the embodiment of God the Father and the "mind of Christ" is the mind of God . . . NOT the barbaric beliefs of our primitive ancestors.
I do not understand why people insist on claiming that I do not believe the Bible just because I do not believe it is God's 100% inerrant and infallible word. What about this idea is so difficult to comprehend? The Bible CONTAINS inspirations from God. The inerrancy and infallibility nonsense is just a "precept and doctrine of men" that is preposterous . . . and it is completely unnecessary to belief in God and Jesus. Let's face it, Robert . . . you must not believe in the New Covenant since you keep insisting that my views are just my personal philosophy. I know Christ abides with us and His Holy Spirit (Comforter) is within our consciousness to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts."
As for the OT DESCRIPTIONS of God . . . they are the result of our ignorant ancient ancestors' superstitions and barbaric beliefs about God. It is those DESCRIPTIONS that I refuse to accept because they contradict the TRUE NATURE of God AS REVEALED by Christ. Christians are supposed to use Christ as the embodiment of God the Father and the "mind of Christ" is the mind of God . . . NOT the barbaric beliefs of our primitive ancestors.
See Matt.22:1.[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
And in John 10:[30] I and my Father are one. And in John 14:1.[9] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
You claim to believe in Christ AND God, but when Jesus refers to His Father, He affirms the same God of the Old Testament. How can you claim to have the Spirit of Christ and refuse the Old Testament which profysized so accurately the details of His life.
Jesus said His Father was greater than He, and He prayed that His Father's will should be done, rather than His own.
I do not understand why people insist on claiming that I do not believe the Bible just because I do not believe it is God's 100% inerrant and infallible word. What about this idea is so difficult to comprehend? The Bible CONTAINS inspirations from God. The inerrancy and infallibility nonsense is just a "precept and doctrine of men" that is preposterous . . . and it is completely unnecessary to belief in God and Jesus. Let's face it, Robert . . . you must not believe in the New Covenant since you keep insisting that my views are just my personal philosophy. I know Christ abides with us and His Holy Spirit (Comforter) is within our consciousness to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts."
As for the OT DESCRIPTIONS of God . . . they are the result of our ignorant ancient ancestors' superstitions and barbaric beliefs about God. It is those DESCRIPTIONS that I refuse to accept because they contradict the TRUE NATURE of God AS REVEALED by Christ. Christians are supposed to use Christ as the embodiment of God the Father and the "mind of Christ" is the mind of God . . . NOT the barbaric beliefs of our primitive ancestors.
Ok, so what's your objective criterion for determining which parts of the bible are inspired by God and which parts are the ramblings of our primitive ancestors? Do you simply assert that all of the "nice" bible teachings are from God and that all of the "not so nice" teachings are from men?
As for Christ, he taught plenty of "not so nice" things, like: people being thrown into everlasting fire, that a person must love him more than his closest family members, that he is the only way to God, etc.
I do not understand why people insist on claiming that I do not believe the Bible just because I do not believe it is God's 100% inerrant and infallible word. What about this idea is so difficult to comprehend? The Bible CONTAINS inspirations from God. The inerrancy and infallibility nonsense is just a "precept and doctrine of men" that is preposterous . . . and it is completely unnecessary to belief in God and Jesus. Let's face it, Robert . . . you must not believe in the New Covenant since you keep insisting that my views are just my personal philosophy. I know Christ abides with us and His Holy Spirit (Comforter) is within our consciousness to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts."
As for the OT DESCRIPTIONS of God . . . they are the result of our ignorant ancient ancestors' superstitions and barbaric beliefs about God. It is those DESCRIPTIONS that I refuse to accept because they contradict the TRUE NATURE of God AS REVEALED by Christ. Christians are supposed to use Christ as the embodiment of God the Father and the "mind of Christ" is the mind of God . . . NOT the barbaric beliefs of our primitive ancestors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80
Ok, so what's your objective criterion for determining which parts of the bible are inspired by God and which parts are the ramblings of our primitive ancestors? Do you simply assert that all of the "nice" bible teachings are from God and that all of the "not so nice" teachings are from men?
As for Christ, he taught plenty of "not so nice" things, like: people being thrown into everlasting fire, that a person must love him more than his closest family members, that he is the only way to God, etc.
Let me repeat it yet again. God IS Spirit. God IS agape love. The Spirit of agape love IS God's Spirit. The ONLY standard for truth is to test everything against the Spirit of agape love. If it contradicts or is inconsistent with agape love . . . it is NOT of God and neither Jesus nor God would EVER have said it or done it. It is an absolute standard for truth because Christ IS the truth and that truth is unambiguously agape love for us all. Everything else is human vanity, hubris and desire for power and control. Jesus and God can NOT be pleased with what has been done to corrupt the Gospel.
The problem with that, Mystic, is that a lot of love can be tough. We may upset people but it is necessary for their well being that they be upset. It may seem harsh and not loving to say that those who do not hear His words will be thrown onto the fire (whatever that actually means) but it is a necessary warning, done out of love. Which can be said of everything in the Bible.
It comes close to the argument that, whatever God does is good, (even if it looks bad to us) because it was done by God and God is good by definition, so everything He does is good...in the essence of His being, in a way that mere mortals cannot understand.
Now just replace 'Good' with 'agape -love' and see that it is saying the same thing.
It does not help us in working out which bits are agape -loving and which bits are not and are to be rejected as false - even if they look as though they were written by the same person.
Unless of course you think that agape -love is a sort of spiritual God -given faculty that enables the person who has it to pass a sort of spiritual UV -lamp over the scriptures and detect which bits are real and which bits are fake.
And you will probably gather from the exchange on Paul being mistaken that I believe that this is just what you think.
Let me repeat it yet again. God IS Spirit. God IS agape love. The Spirit of agape love IS God's Spirit. The ONLY standard for truth is to test everything against the Spirit of agape love. If it contradicts or is inconsistent with agape love . . . it is NOT of God and neither Jesus nor God would EVER have said it or done it. It is an absolute standard for truth because Christ IS the truth and that truth is unambiguously agape love for us all. Everything else is human vanity, hubris and desire for power and control. Jesus and God can NOT be pleased with what has been done to corrupt the Gospel.
The Bible says that Satan comes as an angel of light so it's possible that your idea of God's spirit is deceptions from Satan. You appear to be practicing a completely emotion based Christianity. If it feels like God directing me then it's God.
But the Bible gives us foundation. We can test the spirits against the Word of God. Jesus often referred to the OT passages with high respect and belief in them. If they are ignorant ramblings of an ancient people then you are essentially saying Christ himself was fooled.
On a side note, I don't believe it's fair to regard people of that time period as stupid or ignorant. Sure they didn't have our modern technology but they were quite capable of accomplishing amazing things with limited resources. For example, In Iran, ancient people invented a form of refrigeration right in the Middle East and it is still used today.
The Bible says that Satan comes as an angel of light so it's possible that your idea of God's spirit is deceptions from Satan. You appear to be practicing a completely emotion based Christianity. If it feels like God directing me then it's God.
But the Bible gives us foundation. We can test the spirits against the Word of God. Jesus often referred to the OT passages with high respect and belief in them. If they are ignorant ramblings of an ancient people then you are essentially saying Christ himself was fooled.
On a side note, I don't believe it's fair to regard people of that time period as stupid or ignorant. Sure they didn't have our modern technology but they were quite capable of accomplishing amazing things with limited resources. For example, In Iran, ancient people invented a form of refrigeration right in the Middle East and it is still used today.
Ok, so what's your objective criterion for determining which parts of the bible are inspired by God and which parts are the ramblings of our primitive ancestors? Do you simply assert that all of the "nice" bible teachings are from God and that all of the "not so nice" teachings are from men?
As for Christ, he taught plenty of "not so nice" things, like: people being thrown into everlasting fire, that a person must love him more than his closest family members, that he is the only way to God, etc.
Another excellent post -
MysticPhD keeps dodging the 'not so nice' things that Jesus and His heavenly Father taught by saying God and Jesus are ALL "agape love", and he just dismisses anything that is not agape love. But two of the attributes of Jesus and His Father are PERFECT MERCY and PERFECT JUSTICE. Think about a natural judge who may have a strong element of mercy in his nature, but is expected to administer punishment according to the law of justice.
In the time of Noah, mankind had become terribly wicked and the wrath of God was poured out by the flood which destroyed all but Noah and his wife and his 3 sons and their wives. God promised that the rainbow would be a sign that the world would never be covered by another flood.
But in our day, mankind has again become terribly wicked. They have loved darkness more than light, and the time will come when Jesus will return to this earth. At the final day, all mankind will stand before the Savior of the world to be judged by PERFECT JUSTICE. We need to be asking ourselves, "Will we be able to stand because we HEARD THE WORD OF GOD AND DID IT, as Jesus said of those who would be included in His family?" [Luke 8:21.]
The problem with that, Mystic, is that a lot of love can be tough. We may upset people but it is necessary for their well being that they be upset. It may seem harsh and not loving to say that those who do not hear His words will be thrown onto the fire (whatever that actually means) but it is a necessary warning, done out of love. Which can be said of everything in the Bible.
It comes close to the argument that, whatever God does is good, (even if it looks bad to us) because it was done by God and God is good by definition, so everything He does is good...in the essence of His being, in a way that mere mortals cannot understand.
Now just replace 'Good' with 'agape -love' and see that it is saying the same thing.
It does not help us in working out which bits are agape -loving and which bits are not and are to be rejected as false - even if they look as though they were written by the same person.
Unless of course you think that agape -love is a sort of spiritual God -given faculty that enables the person who has it to pass a sort of spiritual UV -lamp over the scriptures and detect which bits are real and which bits are fake.
And you will probably gather from the exchange on Paul being mistaken that I believe that this is just what you think.
The Bible says that Satan comes as an angel of light so it's possible that your idea of God's spirit is deceptions from Satan. You appear to be practicing a completely emotion based Christianity. If it feels like God directing me then it's God.
But the Bible gives us foundation. We can test the spirits against the Word of God. Jesus often referred to the OT passages with high respect and belief in them. If they are ignorant ramblings of an ancient people then you are essentially saying Christ himself was fooled.
On a side note, I don't believe it's fair to regard people of that time period as stupid or ignorant. Sure they didn't have our modern technology but they were quite capable of accomplishing amazing things with limited resources. For example, In Iran, ancient people invented a form of refrigeration right in the Middle East and it is still used today.
Excellent post.
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