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Nonsense. Snakes are an important part of the ecological balance of this world. They keep rodent and bug populations in check. Pity they've gotten such a bad rap because some people have chosen to see them as something evil because of what's in Genesis.
Last edited by DewDropInn; 01-07-2015 at 08:49 AM..
I do not understand why people insist on claiming that I do not believe the Bible just because I do not believe it is God's 100% inerrant and infallible word. What about this idea is so difficult to comprehend? The Bible CONTAINS inspirations from God. The inerrancy and infallibility nonsense is just a "precept and doctrine of men" that is preposterous . . . and it is completely unnecessary to belief in God and Jesus. Let's face it, Robert . . . you must not believe in the New Covenant since you keep insisting that my views are just my personal philosophy. I know Christ abides with us and His Holy Spirit (Comforter) is within our consciousness to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts."
As for the OT DESCRIPTIONS of God . . . they are the result of our ignorant ancient ancestors' superstitions and barbaric beliefs about God. It is those DESCRIPTIONS that I refuse to accept because they contradict the TRUE NATURE of God AS REVEALED by Christ. Christians are supposed to use Christ as the embodiment of God the Father and the "mind of Christ" is the mind of God . . . NOT the barbaric beliefs of our primitive ancestors.
Mystic - I realize this post is an old one, but I wanted to tell you that, even though I believe that, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:[2 Tim. 3:16], I have changed my conviction that the Bible and its translations are inerrant. The News week article on THE BIBLE brought me to the realization that not every word or passage is inerrant.
I have changed my conviction that the Bible and its translations are inerrant. The News week article on THE BIBLE brought me to the realization that not every word or passage is inerrant.
jeffbase: You never will meet a friendly snake-because they are not friendly animals. However, they are fascinating, and do make excellent pets. They also can be extremely tractable and docile(of course, sanitizing your hands is a good idea after touching any animals...including the notorious two legged human animal-we carry more deadly germs for each other than everything else put together ). I have done hundreds of outreach presentations and my own pet snakes and other critters have been held by thousands of people at this point without incident. Compared to the potential and frequent cases of people being bitten or scratched by more traditional pets my snakes are pretty mundane in comparison.
The fascinating thing is some people suspect (a great read is 'The wildlife of our Bodies' for a happily evolutionary picture of humanity-along with various books dealing with the evolutionary history of man) that fear of snakes may have evolutionary basis. Apparently macaque monkeys are quick to learn a fear of snakes. It makes sense-death by venomous snakebite is still a major cause of death in many parts of the world. Sadly the economics of providing lifesaving antivenin to the poor means that many people living in these regions still go untreated. People to bold around crawling things and the environments they like probably got the evolutionary short stick until fairly recently. I was bitten by a moray eel by sticking my hand thoughtlessly into a dark hole in a tidepool...so even today such fears can be helpful!
But back to the main topic
With religion-you are left with explaining the state of humanity as defects caused by the fall. With the strange and very ungodly behavior of certain animals(for a great look at how this and other discoveries stirred Victorians 'The Species Seeker' is great. I would have love to see the Victorian era interest in the natural world revived... Their was the ichneumon problem...how God could have created such a cruelty as a wasp which lays eggs on a living caterpillar-then to devour it. Ahhh...the least of such things we know about now!) we are left to explain that as also perhaps being caused by the fall. Certainly God would not create such monstrosities. And if he did, by the way, he must have had an inordinate fondness for "creeping things" particularly beetles.
How else other than dividing good and evil then can you "explain" then the commonness of cannibalism, infanticide, paedophagic fish, fungi of all sorts of horrid types, and all the weirdest sexual(Dr. Tatianas Sex advice to all Creation) habits in the natural world? Ok, fine, go ahead and go along with the verse that Satan has dominion on the Earth...that their is a millions of years long gap between Gen 1:1 and 1:2 and the like. But now life is so bland! What is more...it lacks the explanatory power that science does. But that is ok if you aren't looking too carefully at the natural world to be concerned. Once you are freed from categorizing nature as good and bad and realizing it really just is it makes so much more sense, and is infinitely interesting.
Under the light of evolution-it all makes more sense. Diseases of affluence. Even religion and spirituality.
I'm going to ask this again since it must have gotten buried. Is their any evidence or musings that people who become atheists or agnostic tend to be those better off? Maybe we have the luxury of being able to contemplate mortality-or whatever...versus those hanging on by an edge really need religion.
Good post. I am not calling all Bible - believers Creation - Museum freaks who believe that T Rex only stopped eating grass because of Adam's disobedience (you think I'm kidding?) but one additional problem about the fall -scenario is that it implies there was no death before the fall, otherwise Adam didn't lose what he never had and in fact God lied and the snake told the truth. The Dying could only be an on the spot death -threat.
But if all the other stuff hadn't sinned, they should be immortal true, even the fruit, if one want to claim that no animals were ever killed. If anything dies either of old age or being eaten, death was already in the world and the supposition is that Adam and wife were also subject to death.
God seems to let this slip in 2.17 where he dishes out a lot of punishments but not death. True, he mentions returning to dust, but the implication is that this was going to happen anyway And of course sin applying only to Adam is not credible. All his descendents (and Eve's too) have to put up with the same 'punishments'.
Probably (id what i am saying) Genesis I and 2 is the most laughably improbable bit of the bible to claim as inerrant historical fact.
Those who don't and play the symbolism/metaphor/interpret -it - to -fit -science cards are pretty much saying it is myth. Which is what I say myself.
Once you are freed from categorizing nature as good and bad and realizing it really just is it makes so much more sense, and is infinitely interesting.
Under the light of evolution-it all makes more sense. Diseases of affluence. Even religion and spirituality.
I'm going to ask this again since it must have gotten buried. Is their any evidence or musings that people who become atheists or agnostic tend to be those better off? Maybe we have the luxury of being able to contemplate mortality-or whatever...versus those hanging on by an edge really need religion.
You just gave one answer yourself.
Another important one is freedom from guilt for not doing the things you think you should be doing because it's "what Jesus would do" and lying to yourself and others in an attempt to rationalize why you didn't even though if Christians really all did 'what Jesus would do" they'd all be living more like Mother Theresa.
I have a particular lady in mind and was talking to her recently , which is why that occurred to me.
She berates herself as a "bad person" frequently for not always being as nice or thoughtful as she should be. Actually, so do I sometimes. But, the big difference is, I consider it, tell myself the truth about why it is, accept it if it's not really important as far as others are concerned or work to change it if I think it is important.
She prays to be a 'better person' and just feels even guiltier that she's not changing and so it must be that she must not be praying enough or isn't receptive.
What a useless, vicious circle.
Those who don't and play the symbolism/metaphor/interpret -it - to -fit -science cards are pretty much saying it is myth. Which is what I say myself.
And then we are left trying to determine what is myth and what is historical fact. This results in some cases of horrible partnerships like the history channel doing a "documentary" on the archaeological and geological evidence for Exodus.
Perhaps I'm too dumb to understand the Bible. Must not have been reading it the right way...you know, should have been using the Spirit to eat and enjoy the word instead of the mind to understand it. Oh well.
And then we are left trying to determine what is myth and what is historical fact. This results in some cases of horrible partnerships like the history channel doing a "documentary" on the archaeological and geological evidence for Exodus.
Perhaps I'm too dumb to understand the Bible. Must not have been reading it the right way...you know, should have been using the Spirit to eat and enjoy the word instead of the mind to understand it. Oh well.
Yes. Which is why we have to be a bit canny about interpreting the evidence. Especially if it's looking overall at a regional archaeology rather than a particular site. I'm thinking of things like the Exodus and flood debate and how easy it is to 'join the dots' by picking the odd bit of evidence that fits what you want to prove and even fiddling it a bit. I'm recalling references to Josephus mentioning people travelling to an 'Ark site'. A coin issued to show the ark. None of it turned out to be squat for the Ark actually up there, but it sure looked good on the apologetics site.
I hardly need go on about the heady mix of evidence amassed to mark out Moses' trek to Saudi Arabia. Just so you overlook any facts that contradict and fiddle others to Fit. I'm thinking of the 'Calf Altar' which was actually a pile of boulders with a lot of carvings on and the one of a bovine was picked out as though it was the only one.
We also had a very good thread on the siege of Jerusalem, which is attested by the Assyrians, too, so there is no doubt about that as history. But an examination of the evidence made the bible account look ever more edited to make it look look good for YHWH.
This is off the line of evident myth, like Eden, and the Flood. There, it simply conflicts with the evidence and so the evidence itself has to be wrong, unless you shoehorn Eve into 'mitochondrial eve' who is nothing like it or try to wangle the Black sea flood into Noah's Biblical flood, which of course it disproves: a local flood completely buggers the Genesis global flood, done by God to teach humanity a lesson, except as a possible folk memory.
And, if we come up to the gospels, sure give or take a walking on water or a divine voice booming from the clouds, it looks historical with Pilate and Caiaphas, Herod and Antipas and even fishooks in capernaum and a silver "Penny" of Tiberius presented as proof. But what are we to make of the shekel -eating fish and Matthew's ludicrous descending angel? We are surely in myth - or fairy story - territory there.
Hmmmm how did the discussion go from CARM founder's daughter to Indiana Jones (snakes and archeology?)
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). I have done hundreds of outreach presentations and my own pet snakes and other critters have been held by thousands of people at this point without incident. Compared to the potential and frequent cases of people being bitten or scratched by more traditional pets my snakes are pretty mundane in comparison. 
of Tiberius presented as proof. But what are we to make of the shekel -eating fish and Matthew's ludicrous descending angel? We are surely in myth - or fairy story - territory there.
