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Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,926,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI
Yes the 12er sect of Shi'ite does have spiritual leaders, the ayatoullahs. But they are the only ones that consider them to be their leaders. No such thing exists among Sunni, that make 85 to 90% of the world's Muslims.
Correct, however nearly all if not all Christian denominations have a hierarchy of clergy and a central leadership/church authority.
Roughly 90% of the worlds Muslims are Sunni and are essentially non-denominational as each Mosque is self reliant. Quite often in nations outside the Mideast they are owned and maintained by the Imam, if it even has an Imam. In the USA there are about 2300 mosques but less than 700 Imams. Typically int he US the Imam will be the oldest person present during prayer time.
The role of an Imam is considerably different than the role of a priest of a Pastor. An imam is supposed to only lead the prayers and nothing else. No teaching or preaching although it is permissible for an Imam to discuss current local affairs about 30 minutes before the Friday Jummah Prayer, he has to stop before the adhan is called.
Sadly in the US and the UK some Imams are begining to act more like Fundamentalist Christian preachers. But that is not their purpose. We are under no obligation to tithe, although we are to donate to charity, the Charity we donate to is of our own choosing. It can be directly to a needy individual. Mosques do not get much if any funding, often the Imam has to pay all the maintanence of the Mosque.
we are cheapskates and feel the Imam should be honored to pay for the Mosque. Here in the USA many Mosques are opening up Islamic centers that have such things as book stores, clothing stores, Various classes and other things to help pay the Mosque expenses.All money raised by a Mosque is to stay local and be used for local needs. It is not permitted for any individual to make a profit through the sale of any religious items or books. Qur'ans are to be given free to Muslims if possible and not to be sold to non-Muslims unless they have shown they know the proper ways to respect the Qur'an. Even then the maximum price is to be the actual printing cost.
Being Muslim is not a money making endeavor even if one volunteers to be an Imam. Any Muslim that knows how to lead the 5 daily prayers is qualified to be an Imam. but not many of us can afford to be an Imam, utility bills for a Mosque can get expensive.
We do believe that someday all people will Muslim, but that will not happen until Jesus(a.s.) returns and destroys the anti-Christ, breaks all the crosses, testifies against those who worshiped him and leads the willing to Islam.
Hypothetical Question:
Who would gain anything if somebody converts to Islam?
We have no ordained clergy.
We have no central earthly leader or agency.
We have no religious hierarchy.
Why, the rest of the Muslim community. It's really no different from the Christian "One day every knee will bow". A lot of people in both religions that are heavy on proselytizing believe every new convert somehow proves their ideological superiority. Plus, more numbers mean a stronger political voice to be heard, more group pressure to be put out... pretty much more power to remodel the nation to their liking. And once they are in the majority with all the power, and Christians or atheists are in the minority with little power.... well, you see what has happened in those boats.
That is why I think, the right question to ask of any Muslim who comes to Europe is not "Would you use violence to advance Islam?" but "Are you ready to renounce Islam altogether and live according to the laws of a secular state?"
So, interesting that it was Muslims who did this. Why is no one surprised?
When is the world finally going to get over this insanity of having faith in some invisible sky daddy, and thinking your sky daddy is better then the next persons? If nothing else this incidence shows why religions are a bane to this planet. We are not going to be just be able to get along as long as this idiocy of fsiths continues.
What you have stated above is your opinion and has no affect on anyone else who has beliefs different than yours.
You are entitled to your beliefs without being degraded for them so why can't you not degrade someone else for their beliefs?
Why, the rest of the Muslim community. It's really no different from the Christian "One day every knee will bow". A lot of people in both religions that are heavy on proselytizing believe every new convert somehow proves their ideological superiority. Plus, more numbers mean a stronger political voice to be heard, more group pressure to be put out... pretty much more power to remodel the nation to their liking. And once they are in the majority with all the power, and Christians or atheists are in the minority with little power.... well, you see what has happened in those boats.
That is why I think, the right question to ask of any Muslim who comes to Europe is not "Would you use violence to advance Islam?" but "Are you ready to renounce Islam altogether and live according to the laws of a secular state?"
Most Muslims are not in favor of proselytizing. We believe we should not preach to those that have no desire to hear about Islam. Our means of proselyting is supposed to be to lead an exemplary life and be repared to answer all questions.
We do believe that once a person has sincerly accepted Islam that to leave Islam is an unpardonable sin and results in eternal Damnation.
Most nations that have had a large influx of Muslims have remained non-Muslims. India is the best example as even while under Islamic rule India remained predominately Hindu with Muslims never being above 25% of the population,
Sharia law is supposed to be imposed only upon Muslims it is not supposed to be forced upon non-Muslims.
As to the boats, that was 15 criminals aboard one boat. they violated Islam by their actions and should be sentenced to the maximum punishment permisable under Italian law for their crime.
We are forbidden to harm anyone simply because of their religious beliefs. Even in time of war we have strict rules:
10 Islamic Rules of War
Before engaging in battle, the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) instructed his soldiers:
1. “Do not kill any child, any woman, or any elder or sick person.†(Sunan Abu Dawud)
2. “Do not practice treachery or mutilation.(Al-Muwatta)
3. Do not uproot or burn palms or cut down fruitful trees.(Al-Muwatta)
4. Do not slaughter a sheep or a cow or a camel, except for food.†(Al-Muwatta)
5. “If one fights his brother, [he must] avoid striking the face, for God created him in the image of Adam.†(Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim)
6. “Do not kill the monks in monasteries, and do not kill those sitting in places of worship. (Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal)
7. “Do not destroy the villages and towns, do not spoil the cultivated fields and gardens, and do not slaughter the cattle.†(Sahih Bukhari; Sunan Abu Dawud)
8. “Do not wish for an encounter with the enemy; pray to God to grant you security; but when you [are forced to] encounter them, exercise patience.†(Sahih Muslim)
9. “No one may punish with fire except the Lord of Fire.†(Sunan Abu Dawud).
10. “Accustom yourselves to do good if people do good, and to not do wrong even if they commit evil.†(Al-Tirmidhi)
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,926,708 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSD610
So what exactly is an "Xian"?
What you have stated above is your opinion and has no affect on anyone else who has beliefs different than yours.
You are entitled to your beliefs without being degraded for them so why can't you not degrade someone else for their beliefs?
Degrading or bashing ideas dues not imply doing the same to the person holding them, does it?
Ideas, religions, philosophies, or politics don't deserve respect. Only people do.
Not usually. I'm not a big television person. It doesn't go on sometimes for days. Why?
Are you going to tell me that because you see radical Muslims doing terrible things in the Middle East, it follows that all Muslims should therefore automatically be considered to be the same as the ones committing atrocities? Should I be suspicious of the young woman in my office who is putting together our procedures manual because she wears a headscarf?
Did you forget that I am a 9/11 survivor? I've said it enough times on here. I'll say it again.
I spent twenty years working in a place where people of all religions and races and countries of origin and whatever differences you can think of worked together side by side and got along. People seem to completely miss the irony that this place, one of the few in the country or even the world that had that sort of dynamic, was destroyed by people who looked at everyone inside as a "THEM", an enemy that needed to be destroyed. While it was not good that they attacked the Pentagon, it is a military installation and a little more understandable. The World Trade Center? It was everyone in the world, just going to work. People from ninety countries killed, all races, all religions.
Since that day and until the day I die I will sing this song: Do not judge or make assumptions about a human being because of what another has done. Unless you KNOW that a person, or even a group of people like ISIS who has declared their intent plainly, thinks a certain way, you must take the risk and be open to the possibility of who that person is. Not doing so makes you of the same mindset as the terrorists.
You know, Vizio, when you first appeared on these board claiming to be a pastor, I thought you were lying. You do not sound kind. You do not sound like a person who understands the message of Jesus. You never listen to what others have to say or seriously consider their words or their points of view--just always look to argue with them. Now I do believe you are a pastor, but I don't believe you've ever done any self-examination, any looking inward to see if you are the person you are supposed to be. I know I am not the person I should be, and I never will be the person I should be, but I do try to look at myself constantly to see where I am going wrong.
As one Christian to another, I ask you to take up that practice.
Correct, however nearly all if not all Christian denominations have a hierarchy of clergy and a central leadership/church authority.
Church organization tends to mirror the country in which it exists. Most churches in the US, for example, elect their vestry or consistory or bishops or what have you.
Leadership can be abused. One of the things I like about the organization of the particular church I belong to is that their "rulebook" says, "Who are the church?" The answer is "The laity, the clergy, and the bishops". In that order for a reason.
Of course, all of these organizational set-ups are man-made anyway.
Not usually. I'm not a big television person. It doesn't go on sometimes for days. Why?
Are you going to tell me that because you see radical Muslims doing terrible things in the Middle East, it follows that all Muslims should therefore automatically be considered to be the same as the ones committing atrocities? Should I be suspicious of the young woman in my office who is putting together our procedures manual because she wears a headscarf?
Did you forget that I am a 9/11 survivor? I've said it enough times on here. I'll say it again.
I spent twenty years working in a place where people of all religions and races and countries of origin and whatever differences you can think of worked together side by side and got along. People seem to completely miss the irony that this place, one of the few in the country or even the world that had that sort of dynamic, was destroyed by people who looked at everyone inside as a "THEM", an enemy that needed to be destroyed. While it was not good that they attacked the Pentagon, it is a military installation and a little more understandable. The World Trade Center? It was everyone in the world, just going to work. People from ninety countries killed, all races, all religions.
Since that day and until the day I die I will sing this song: Do not judge or make assumptions about a human being because of what another has done. Unless you KNOW that a person, or even a group of people like ISIS who has declared their intent plainly, thinks a certain way, you must take the risk and be open to the possibility of who that person is. Not doing so makes you of the same mindset as the terrorists.
You know, Vizio, when you first appeared on these board claiming to be a pastor, I thought you were lying. You do not sound kind. You do not sound like a person who understands the message of Jesus. You never listen to what others have to say or seriously consider their words or their points of view--just always look to argue with them. Now I do believe you are a pastor, but I don't believe you've ever done any self-examination, any looking inward to see if you are the person you are supposed to be. I know I am not the person I should be, and I never will be the person I should be, but I do try to look at myself constantly to see where I am going wrong.
As one Christian to another, I ask you to take up that practice.
We do not know who is or is not a Muslim. We only know those who claim to be Muslim. To be Muslim is a personal commitment a person makes to Allah.
The absolute minimum to be a Muslim is to Believe there is only one God(swt) and Muhammad(saws) is his messenger. There is no way to prove what a person believes except to take them at their word.. However we can and do speak out against those that do things that are contradictory to the Sunnah, Qur'an or Ahadith.
I find many of the acts done by ISIS to be anti-Islamic.
I will outright condemn a terrorist and say that they are not Christians. Christians don't do that sort of thing. You can't say that about Muslims?
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