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If they have no knowledge about their customer's lifestyle then there can't be any moral conflict.
Divorce is permitted in the Bible for infidelity. Are you suggesting that they quiz each customer first?
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Originally Posted by Pleroo
I think they should simply refuse to sell wedding cakes to anyone based on the principle that they might inadvertently participate in a sinful union.
About 35-45% of marriages in the US every year involve at least one spouse who is remarrying. About 90% of those people's previous marriages had been ended through divorce. Although I couldn't find a statistic on how many of the divorced people who remarry had divorced because of infidelity (the biblical justification for divorce), only about 20% of all divorces in the U.S. were attributed to infidelity. That should give you a good indication that a hefty chunk of marriages, overall, would actually be adulterous according to the bible.
A good "bible-believing" Christian simply shouldn't be in the wedding cake business, because it's virtually guaranteed that they would be providing cakes to people entering into what they would consider to be sinful unions. Better safe than sorry.
Let's take this to the logical conclusion. What about the pedophile that just wants to have his needs legitimized? Should we not speak out about it? How about the rapist? The murderer? The drug dealer? The *gasp* rich, fat cat lawyer who makes money off of rich Republicans?
Okay, does a pedophile have a willing victim capable of giving informed consent? No?
What about a rapist? No?
Or a murderer? No?
The fat cat lawyer will be making money off his own kind---I see no problem except possibly for the people on the other end of the lawsuit.
YOU, however, claim to speak for God. Then try practicing living in a Godly manner toward all those sinners you wish to win. You've already dismissed six and seven year old children as sinners.
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Considering that my son has a longstanding crush on Glee's Blaine and regularly refers to him as "my boyfriend," I thought there was a fair chance that he would someday say, "I'm gay." But my kid is only 7 years old. I figured I had a few years before we crossed that threshold (if we ever did), probably when he was 14 or 15. I never thought it would happen this soon.
Six months ago "gay" wasn't even a word in my son's vocabulary. He has always known that some of our male friends are married to men and some of our female friends to women, and it is such a normal part of his life that he never needed a special word to describe them. When he did notice the word and asked what it meant, I told him that when boys want to marry boys and girls want to marry girls, we call that "gay." He didn't seem very interested and quickly went off to do something else more exciting than a vocabulary lesson with his mom.
Fast-forward a few months. I was on the phone with a relative who had just discovered that I was blogging on The Huffington Post and openly discussing my son's crush on Blaine. I was in another room alone (I thought), explaining, "We're not saying he's straight, and we're not saying he's gay. We're saying we love who he is," when my son's voice piped up behind me.
"Yes, I am," he said.
"Am what, baby?" I asked.
"Gay. I'm gay."
My world paused for a moment, and I saw the "geez, Mom, didn't you know that already?" look on my son's face.
I got off the phone and leaned down to eye level with him and rubbed my nose against his. "I love you so much."
"I know," he said, and ran off to play with his brothers.
I suppose at seven the boy decided on a gay "lifestyle" and openly chose sin.
You would be telling this Mom to pray away the gay instead of telling her son she loved him. Even if she hasn't accepted Christ as her Savior she is much farther down the path to salvation than your posts indicate you are.
Okay, does a pedophile have a willing victim capable of giving informed consent? No?
Not relevant. There are actually psychologists coming out now saying that it's not really that harmful for an adult to have that kind of loving relationship with a minor. In the same way, psychologists USED TO say that homosexuality was a mental disorder, but they changed it awhile back. I give it a matter of time before the same happens with pedophilia. After all...if a kid can decide as young as 7 that he/she is gay or transgender....why can't they give consent?
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What about a rapist? No?
That's irrelevant.
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Or a murderer? No?
Again...not relevant.
If all you're going to argue is personal happiness...why is any of that relevant?
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The fat cat lawyer will be making money off his own kind---I see no problem except possibly for the people on the other end of the lawsuit.
YOU, however, claim to speak for God. Then try practicing living in a Godly manner toward all those sinners you wish to win. You've already dismissed six and seven year old children as sinners.
I preach the Bible. It says that we are born sinners. That means I was sinful from birth.
I suppose at seven the boy decided on a gay "lifestyle" and openly chose sin.
You would be telling this Mom to pray away the gay instead of telling her son she loved him. Even if she hasn't accepted Christ as her Savior she is much farther down the path to salvation than your posts indicate you are.
In a previous generation we might have tried to help a kid with their psychological issues. Now, we tell the kid to embrace them. I don't call that love. That poor kid is going to grow up terribly confused.
We're not talking about denying a gay couple housing or food. We're talking about a luxury product.
Oh. So now discrimination is OK if luxury products are involved. Previously you stated same-sex couples should be denied cake because of religious reasons. Now we learn you believe they can be discriminated against because cake is a luxury product.
What else is on your list? Are you fundamentalists going to stand at the door of the Porsche dealers and say, "You're gay! You can't drive an upscale car. The Ford dealer is for people like you! "
BTW: In your previous posts you stated cake was part of the wedding ceremony. Now you've decided it's a luxury. Lol.... whatever. It's obvious you're making all this up as you go along because you need to justify discrimination.
Last edited by DewDropInn; 07-07-2015 at 02:02 PM..
And the disgusting thing is you actually have no problem with such an overblown fine for a minor offense laid down by a government official who had a conflict of interest. If that official had been meeting with Christian groups and attending church services where they talked about the case, you would no doubt be up in arms.
We're not talking about denying a gay couple housing or food. We're talking about a luxury product. The owners at the time, given the current state laws, didn't see where it was a big deal. They figured the customers would respect their religious beliefs. Nope, MAKE THEM PAY is the LGBT community's proud mantra apparently. Losing their business wasn't enough.
They failed to comply with a discrimination law which encompasses new standards of society. That's all.
Actually according to the ruling damages were awarded because the bakers made a big deal out of it publically
I have not bothered to read the entire judgement but the part on that page puts the blame for the publicity on the bakers and not on the gays who were refused service. It says that the bakers put it on social media and kept it on social media the complaintants were negatively impacted but you are blaming the people who wanted to buy a cake for the bakers promoting their views on the media. I thought that originally there was a small fine to pay. Did it get that much larger becuause of the actions after the fact by the bakers? I do not know but that sure how the judgement reads. Discrimination laws do not state that only the bare essentials cannot be dicriminated against but once you have shelter and the minimum to eat everyone is free to discriminate against you.
What about a store clerk denying to sell condoms or lube to two men at the cash register...
Is there a presumption of homosexuality? Maybe they are just about to enter into a heterosexual orgy, or 3-some or gangbang or "running a train" on some woman... at what point is it a sin?
And at what point is it ok to "morally object" to someone, or deny services? Where are you allowed to make presumptions?
They got a civil judgment much as OJ still owes. Even people who get thrown in jail over resistance see it often has affirmation of their beliefs ;so who knows with this. Today I see so many who seem to live for conflict. No thanks.
Not relevant. There are actually psychologists coming out now saying that it's not really that harmful for an adult to have that kind of loving relationship with a minor. In the same way, psychologists USED TO say that homosexuality was a mental disorder, but they changed it awhile back. I give it a matter of time before the same happens with pedophilia. After all...if a kid can decide as young as 7 that he/she is gay or transgender....why can't they give consent?
That's irrelevant.
Again...not relevant.
If all you're going to argue is personal happiness...why is any of that relevant?
I preach the Bible. It says that we are born sinners. That means I was sinful from birth.
In a previous generation we might have tried to help a kid with their psychological issues. Now, we tell the kid to embrace them. I don't call that love. That poor kid is going to grow up terribly confused.
The gay people I know are not terribly confused. Maybe because they are adults. All of the ones I know grew up in the period of time when being gay was not acceptable to their family or to much of those in society. What confusion there among gays is probably stems from others telling them they are wrong, immoral or not welcomed would be my guess.
If a child at age 7 decides he is gay can he also then go out a buy a gun, vote or drive a car? No there are age limits for many things much of it based on level of maturity to be able to understand the consequences. Deciding that you are gay is not a decision but a realization much the same way some children "decide" that they are going to be tall.
Throwing in pedophila with gay is very tiring and very telling. Could you please link the physcologist saying the adult child sexual relations are fine, I would like to read on what they actually are talking about?
Actually...yes---we have shown that the state DID fine them for speaking in a television interview regarding it, and stating that they were going to continue to fight. So yeah....they were fined for daring to speak out.
Please read the ruling that I already linked to. It said that by speaking in the media they admitted that they broke the law, it was used as evidence. It also stated that by saying that they would not ever serve homosexuals in regards to a product they offered they were showing that they were not going to follow the law in the future.
Your post is completely off topic and has no relevancy whatsoever to the post you responded to, and serves no purpose, other than to try to distract anyone reading from the fact that you have no reasonable response.
jeff posted about the law, I pointed out how he supports evasion of law that works in "his" favor.
Just as you do.
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