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I believe everything happens for a reason, that there is something out there bigger than myself. And that is what I want to find.
Well if you're stuck on that concept, sure, you'll be obliged to chase it. You will find something ... basically a projection of your own hopes / dreams / fears / aspirations onto the Big Other known as god.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xRedd
So far my favorite thing I have found in my research has been Pantheism.
There is also Panentheism. (note the extra "en" in there).
Both pretty much conflate deity / divinity with things we already have perfectly serviceable words / concepts for (the universe, existence, reality, consciousness) and therefore in my view render the concept of god meaningless. Your mileage may vary. But it is to me a bit like a religion invented by the Cheshire cat: god (or spirituality if you prefer) "means just what I say it does ... no more and no less".
All that said, I think you're on the right track at least to swim against the tide and leave the faith you were born into. Most people follow what they were randomly conditioned to follow; you will surely have a better and far more self-aware experience living by your own lights.
Well if you're stuck on that concept, sure, you'll be obliged to chase it. You will find something ... basically a projection of your own hopes / dreams / fears / aspirations onto the Big Other known as god.
There is also Panentheism. (note the extra "en" in there).
Both pretty much conflate deity / divinity with things we already have perfectly serviceable words / concepts for (the universe, existence, reality, consciousness) and therefore in my view render the concept of god meaningless. Your mileage may vary. But it is to me a bit like a religion invented by the Cheshire cat: god (or spirituality if you prefer) "means just what I say it does ... no more and no less".
All that said, I think you're on the right track at least to swim against the tide and leave the faith you were born into. Most people follow what they were randomly conditioned to follow; you will surely have a better and far more self-aware experience living by your own lights.
I just don't like the thought we were just randomly put here and everything is just a coincidence. It's not a very positive way of thinking, personally.
I just don't like the thought we were just randomly put here and everything is just a coincidence. It's not a very positive way of thinking, personally.
It is only negative in that it doesn't appeal to you. But if it's true -- isn't that more important than it being appealing? You're always ahead of the game when you're dealing in reality, even when reality is contrary to personal preference.
Besides, most of the reason it doesn't appeal to you is the very conditioning you're trying to escape. You've been taught that it's inherently a negative way of thinking. But you need look no further than, say, Carl Sagan or Neil Degrasse Tyson to see that there are other ways to look at a godless reality ... ways that invoke awe and wonder. If life is unlikely and comes about mechanistically, then you have won the lottery. You exist. You are conscious. You get to play in the sandbox. And the sandbox is amazing. That's extremely positive, as opposed to fixating on the sandbox not being designed specifically for your benefit. Also, when things go off the rails in life (and they do, and they will) you don't have to wonder why the sandbox isn't working properly. None of those angst-ridden, "why me" or "what did I do wrong" questions. It's just stuff happening. You have a basis to dust yourself off and not take it personally.
That last alone has been a huge positive for me personally. There's no Big Brother to fail or disappoint or to try to understand his inscrutable / mysterious ways. There's no supposedly "correct" doctrine to adhere to and see no benefit from adhering to it. And so forth. Instead there is the freedom to assess what's not working and why and act accordingly without being hemmed in by arbitrary doctrines and prescriptions and proscriptions.
Not seeing any negativity at all here. Sure there are things about my life that I find disappointing / frustrating ... because I'm human. But I'd be human even if I were a theist. I would still have preferences, strengths, weaknesses, blind spots, ignorance to overcome. Theism is simply a deliberate shrinking of your palette of tools to engage life with, a deliberate tamping down of self awareness and intellect. Like a lot of things in life it provides short term benefit / escape from stressors at the expense of long term results.
I don't expect to convince you of anything but I'm just suggesting that there are other ways of looking at these questions, however you decide them.
Hello there! So, lately I've been doing some thinking, and I would like to find a religious path for myself. But...I'm not really sure where I should start. I really love a lot of things about Buddhism, but I don't really know where to start with that.
So a little background information...I was raised Catholic, and went to a baptist school. I was very Christian for awhile, but as a grew older I strayed away. I don't really want to go back to Christianity for a lot of reasons, it just isn't for me.
I really want to find a peaceful, happy religion. I am spiritual, I believe there is an afterlife of some kind and I do believe there is a higher being up there, but not a God necessarily in the Christian sense. I just believe there are things outside of my control. I really love nature and things of that sort. I want to get into meditation, and just really want to grow as a person. I just have no idea where to start. I've taken a religions course, and that's what has peaked my interest in Buddhism. But there are so many other religions out there that I would love to learn about, like native american religions.
Basically, I would like some suggestions of religions out there I can learn about, and maybe one day follow. I'm super open minded, and would really just love to learn what is out there and what has worked for you all.
Thanks!
Simply put, you don't require religion.
You mention you are spiritual so it seems rather strange that you are looking for a religion.
Until I read where you said you believe G()D is 'up there' - not necessarily the [Abrahamic] Christian (Judaism/Islamic) G()D idea(s) then you speak about meditation which is an inward introspective device for connection with 'higher' Consciousness...then you speak about paganism ideas associated with indigenous peps.
But finally you say that you are interested in learning about these religions...but in a way which altogether suggests that you are thinking that your spirituality can be activated by finding the religion which will suit you.
You are not on the greatest path, and appear to be wakling backwards.
Let me explain.
This chart:
Is something I created recently to help visualize the path of the evolution of human consciousness...
Religion is the formalizing part of that evolution, and in relation to Abrahamic Religions, these cemented all G()Ds into one box labelled G()D only of course all of these unsuccessfully portrayed to the world that G()D was ONE...more like three in one...
So anyway, if you want to develop your spirituality you would do well to avoid getting into any religion. Examine them please do, join them and wave "ta ta" to developing your spiritual potential.
So you want to contact and commune with "G()D"? Spirituality is the outgrowth of religion in terms of EoC (Evolution of Consciousness) whereby the evolved have set aside the need to commune with G()D through static devices - like dogmatic representatives (Rabbis, Pastors, Priests, Mullah etc) books (Torah, Bible, Quran etc) ritualized prayer/worship, repetitive mantras, etc and commune with "G()D" without any medium save the fluidity of Individual Human Spirit engaging with Collective Spirit aka "G()D".
See?
After Spirituality, what then?
Awakening is the realization that the idea of G()D as presented by religion is a fabricated one with droplets of truth fragmented within those fabrications and no such G()D actually exists and that Consciousness is all sourced from The One Consciousness, which (very loosely) can be called "G()D" but not much like any idea of G()D human beings have concocted over their evolutionary experience on earth to date.
This is changing, but even within spirituality lurks the last bastion of the dominating paganist/religious-type personality positioned to try and keep hold of the individual seeking enlightenment and costume themselves in the guise of 'Spiritualism' which in a sense is the attempt to make organised religion out of spirituality. .................................................. ........
(Ha ha! As if the One Spirit needs human organizing!)
What compels the domineering types has to do with controlling and directing and yes - making a 'living' from the practice of - yet again - still being the medium between the Collective Spirit and the Individual Human Spirit.
"Spiritualism" is not to be confused with being spiritual. The adherents will often try to persuade individuals by using superstition and 'readings' and anything else of that sort to encourage peps to need their services.
Be Aware.
I hope you find the path to awakening and personal interaction with The One Consciousness/Spirit.
Happy Travels on your pilgrimage toward enlightenment...
Last edited by Rotagivan; 07-17-2015 at 01:25 PM..
The church I went to was great, you have the wrong idea. Christianity is just not for me. I was 100% very christian growing up, I truly believed in God and Jesus. But the more I learned about Christianity, the bible, the facts behind it the more I realized this isn't for me.
I don't really want a religion with a specific "God". Been there done that, just not for me. I do like the idea of there being something out there greater than I, but God in the Christian sense isn't it, unfortunately.
Thank you everyone for the suggestions. I will look into finding spiritual groups in my area.
Also, to the guy who asked why religion, well it doesn't necessarily have to be an organized religion. I'm just looking for a path to follow, I want to learn more about different beliefs.
When you say a "path" to follow, are you talking about the philosophy/beliefs? Or are you talking about some kind of actual daily practice?
If the latter, I think a yoga/meditation practice could be a good fit for you. Yoga groups are everywhere, and strongly flavored by the individual teacher. Some teachers are as rigidly dogmatic as pat robertson, others teach you how to meditate and provide the space and leave it up to you to decide what the experience means. If you don't feel quite right in one group, try another. There are also tons of dvds out there that can do the same.
Hello there! So, lately I've been doing some thinking, and I would like to find a religious path for myself. But...I'm not really sure where I should start. I really love a lot of things about Buddhism, but I don't really know where to start with that.
I really love nature and things of that sort. I want to get into meditation, and just really want to grow as a person. I just have no idea where to start. I've taken a religions course, and that's what has peaked my interest in Buddhism. But there are so many other religions out there that I would love to learn about, like native american religions.
Basically, I would like some suggestions of religions out there I can learn about, and maybe one day follow. I'm super open minded, and would really just love to learn what is out there and what has worked for you all.
Thanks!
The first point to be considered in choosing a religion/spirituality is one must match one's current and potential spiritual & psychological profile with the range of religions/spirituality [from kindergarten to grade school to PhD] out there.
I believe if one's religion/spirituality quotient is at the kindergarten to grade school level, then [in general] the Abrahamic religions is the most optimal for most in the current situations [avoid Islam as must as possible]. The other situation where Christianity is most efficient is when one is facing an eschatological or soteriological crisis/dilemma. Christianity can provide immediate relief, cost is one has to be a straightjacketed zombie in one sense for the price of getting a security blanket.
If one's spiritual/quotient [current and potential] is towards the higher college and PhD levels then the main Eastern religions would be optimal for the individual. This is because they provided a range of spiritual and religious courses from Kindergarten to PhD levels. One can jump into any course that suit one's current competency and progress from there.
The critical point is for any religious/spiritual progress to count, there must be real changes in one's neural connectivities. Such changes in the neural connectivity in the brain must affect the relevant circuits. As such the spiritual practices must target to develop the relevant set of neurons.
The most common religious/spiritual practices that can facilitate real progress in neural terms are from the main Eastern religions which has course to cater for those in the kindergarten up to PhD levels.
Since you already have one foot in Buddhism [I believe has the highest level of efficiency] and if it matches your spiritual profile, then it would be a good option to progress with Buddhist practices. One should not approach it with too much emotional attachment but rather with a rational attitude. Whilst concentrating on Buddhism one should do as much research as possible on other Eastern religions.
There are a wide variety of Buddhist teachings from various sects and schools. The caution is, do not simply jump into one specific school and end up with a love-affair with it and condemn other schools. The optimal approach is to research to understand the core principles that is common to all Buddhist schools. Then one should do further research to find out which specific school would fit one's spiritual profile.
Personally I think a good start would be the philosophies* [this is important] and practices of the Theravada's Samartha and Vipassana meditations.
* one good source: Access to Insight and there are many others.
At the same time one should leave an open mind towards Tibetan Buddhism [imo] has the most refined levels of Buddhist philosophies and practices.
Note https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wim_Hof
Wim Hof practice a higher form of Tibetan-Buddhist technique that enable to control his bodily functions and he was tested with an extra ordinary level of anti-bodies which helped him to avoid common illnesses. Wim Hof however seem to let his ego to come to the fore front with his exhibitions, thus such attitude is not condoned within Buddhism.
Btw, one can take lesson from him in the internet.
Generally, one should not focus on showing such skills but practice holistically.
There are many secular self-development programs out there which are very good. In addition read up on all the scandals, quacks and cons relating to all religions [including Buddhism] and other spiritualities.
However with the main Eastern religions, the advantage is one has access to a set of philosophies and practices within a system that has developed over thousands of year [one must read them as much as possible] and thus one can be guided with its embedded wisdom.
Another point is one must be prepared to set aside a lot of time to develop one spiritual progress. There are no short-cuts.
You mention you are spiritual so it seems rather strange that you are looking for a religion.
Until I read where you said you believe G()D is 'up there' - not necessarily the [Abrahamic] Christian (Judaism/Islamic) G()D idea(s) then you speak about meditation which is an inward introspective device for connection with 'higher' Consciousness...then you speak about paganism ideas associated with indigenous peps.
But finally you say that you are interested in learning about these religions...but in a way which altogether suggests that you are thinking that your spirituality can be activated by finding the religion which will suit you.
You are not on the greatest path, and appear to be wakling backwards.
Let me explain.
This chart:
Is something I created recently to help visualize the path of the evolution of human consciousness...
Religion is the formalizing part of that evolution, and in relation to Abrahamic Religions, these cemented all G()Ds into one box labelled G()D only of course all of these unsuccessfully portrayed to the world that G()D was ONE...more like three in one...
So anyway, if you want to develop your spirituality you would do well to avoid getting into any religion. Examine them please do, join them and wave "ta ta" to developing your spiritual potential.
So you want to contact and commune with "G()D"? Spirituality is the outgrowth of religion in terms of EoC (Evolution of Consciousness) whereby the evolved have set aside the need to commune with G()D through static devices - like dogmatic representatives (Rabbis, Pastors, Priests, Mullah etc) books (Torah, Bible, Quran etc) ritualized prayer/worship, repetitive mantras, etc and commune with "G()D" without any medium save the fluidity of Individual Human Spirit engaging with Collective Spirit aka "G()D".
See?
After Spirituality, what then?
Awakening is the realization that the idea of G()D as presented by religion is a fabricated one with droplets of truth fragmented within those fabrications and no such G()D actually exists and that Consciousness is all sourced from The One Consciousness, which (very loosely) can be called "G()D" but not much like any idea of G()D human beings have concocted over their evolutionary experience on earth to date.
This is changing, but even within spirituality lurks the last bastion of the dominating paganist/religious-type personality positioned to try and keep hold of the individual seeking enlightenment and costume themselves in the guise of 'Spiritualism' which in a sense is the attempt to make organised religion out of spirituality. .................................................. ........
(Ha ha! As if the One Spirit needs human organizing!)
What compels the domineering types has to do with controlling and directing and yes - making a 'living' from the practice of - yet again - still being the medium between the Collective Spirit and the Individual Human Spirit.
"Spiritualism" is not to be confused with being spiritual. The adherents will often try to persuade individuals by using superstition and 'readings' and anything else of that sort to encourage peps to need their services.
Be Aware.
I hope you find the path to awakening and personal interaction with The One Consciousness/Spirit.
Happy Travels on your pilgrimage toward enlightenment...
Thank you for your post...but what? I'm sorry but your post is all over the place. How exactly is wanting to find a religion moving backwards? I understand that it could be depending on the religion but I'm not really looking for a God to just blindly follow. I'm not that spiritual at the moment, I want to become more spiritual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum
The first point to be considered in choosing a religion/spirituality is one must match one's current and potential spiritual & psychological profile with the range of religions/spirituality [from kindergarten to grade school to PhD] out there.
I believe if one's religion/spirituality quotient is at the kindergarten to grade school level, then [in general] the Abrahamic religions is the most optimal for most in the current situations [avoid Islam as must as possible]. The other situation where Christianity is most efficient is when one is facing an eschatological or soteriological crisis/dilemma. Christianity can provide immediate relief, cost is one has to be a straightjacketed zombie in one sense for the price of getting a security blanket.
If one's spiritual/quotient [current and potential] is towards the higher college and PhD levels then the main Eastern religions would be optimal for the individual. This is because they provided a range of spiritual and religious courses from Kindergarten to PhD levels. One can jump into any course that suit one's current competency and progress from there.
The critical point is for any religious/spiritual progress to count, there must be real changes in one's neural connectivities. Such changes in the neural connectivity in the brain must affect the relevant circuits. As such the spiritual practices must target to develop the relevant set of neurons.
The most common religious/spiritual practices that can facilitate real progress in neural terms are from the main Eastern religions which has course to cater for those in the kindergarten up to PhD levels.
Since you already have one foot in Buddhism [I believe has the highest level of efficiency] and if it matches your spiritual profile, then it would be a good option to progress with Buddhist practices. One should not approach it with too much emotional attachment but rather with a rational attitude. Whilst concentrating on Buddhism one should do as much research as possible on other Eastern religions.
There are a wide variety of Buddhist teachings from various sects and schools. The caution is, do not simply jump into one specific school and end up with a love-affair with it and condemn other schools. The optimal approach is to research to understand the core principles that is common to all Buddhist schools. Then one should do further research to find out which specific school would fit one's spiritual profile.
Personally I think a good start would be the philosophies* [this is important] and practices of the Theravada's Samartha and Vipassana meditations.
* one good source: Access to Insight and there are many others.
At the same time one should leave an open mind towards Tibetan Buddhism [imo] has the most refined levels of Buddhist philosophies and practices.
Note https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wim_Hof
Wim Hof practice a higher form of Tibetan-Buddhist technique that enable to control his bodily functions and he was tested with an extra ordinary level of anti-bodies which helped him to avoid common illnesses. Wim Hof however seem to let his ego to come to the fore front with his exhibitions, thus such attitude is not condoned within Buddhism.
Btw, one can take lesson from him in the internet.
Generally, one should not focus on showing such skills but practice holistically.
There are many secular self-development programs out there which are very good. In addition read up on all the scandals, quacks and cons relating to all religions [including Buddhism] and other spiritualities.
However with the main Eastern religions, the advantage is one has access to a set of philosophies and practices within a system that has developed over thousands of year [one must read them as much as possible] and thus one can be guided with its embedded wisdom.
Another point is one must be prepared to set aside a lot of time to develop one spiritual progress. There are no short-cuts.
I'm sorry, maybe I'm just not as intelligent but your post was very difficult to follow, lol. You started talking about my brain and what not and lost me around that part...
But, I got the jist, thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqueg
When you say a "path" to follow, are you talking about the philosophy/beliefs? Or are you talking about some kind of actual daily practice?
If the latter, I think a yoga/meditation practice could be a good fit for you. Yoga groups are everywhere, and strongly flavored by the individual teacher. Some teachers are as rigidly dogmatic as pat robertson, others teach you how to meditate and provide the space and leave it up to you to decide what the experience means. If you don't feel quite right in one group, try another. There are also tons of dvds out there that can do the same.
I want a bit of both. I really want to start meditating and yoga, but I would like a belief system to go with it, if I find something I like.
Thank you so much for all of your replies. Religion really is very interesting.
Red, I think one thing you should think about is if "community" is important to you. Could you or would you want to practice your religion by yourself? I could not do this, for example. I think community is very important to discuss and have "religious events" (for lack of a better word). If it is the same for you, then you'd have to go with a religion or philosophy that is not too unknown so you will have people to discuss stuff with.
Other than that all I can say is read as much as you can but also attend events about e.g. Islam or Buddhism (if that was to appeal to you) with real-life people. What might seem good in a book might not be for you once you experience it. Or, the other way around. Something might not sound 100% for you but once you meet some people and see what it is really like it just "clicks."
Finally, you can just go with what feels right even if you cannot really say why you feel that way or others might not understand your choice.
Thank you for your post...but what? I'm sorry but your post is all over the place. How exactly is wanting to find a religion moving backwards? I understand that it could be depending on the religion but I'm not really looking for a God to just blindly follow. I'm not that spiritual at the moment, I want to become more spiritual.
I'm sorry, maybe I'm just not as intelligent but your post was very difficult to follow, lol. You started talking about my brain and what not and lost me around that part...
But, I got the jist, thank you.
I want a bit of both. I really want to start meditating and yoga, but I would like a belief system to go with it, if I find something I like.
Thank you so much for all of your replies. Religion really is very interesting.
A couple of oldies but goodies - got me started on a lifetime adventure - and a newer one - your library almost certainly has them -
Shopping for a pre fabricated belief system implies that such a thing is needed.
It is not.
Either invent your own religion, the advantage being that you will agree with all of the tenants and not have to force yourself to accept things which puzzle you, or, simply do without religion.
It isn't as though religion provides the only community experience out there if that is what you desire.
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