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So if God was proven to your satisfaction to be true, would you worship Him or give Him the finger and go to hell?
If you proved beyond any doubt that Odin the All-Father was real, I guess it would be time to catch up on the human sacrifices. Probably a bad time to be a Christian...
Let me tell you something that might upset you religious folks.
We live in a secular country, which means religion has to stay clear of politics, (public) education and in fact, public life in general.
You are free to believe in whatever you liken you are free to start all sorts of religious groups, schools, churches, ... whatever tickles your fancy.
But stay out of public schools. Your god, the spaghettimonster, allah, buddha, ..., have no place in public matters.
So yeah, I understand the problem with that prayer board. It's a public school. If she wants to profess and spread her faith, she should do it in a private, christian school.
Let me tell you something that might upset you religious folks.
We live in a secular country, which means religion has to stay clear of politics, (public) education and in fact, public life in general.
You are free to believe in whatever you liken you are free to start all sorts of religious groups, schools, churches, ... whatever tickles your fancy.
But stay out of public schools. Your god, the spaghettimonster, allah, buddha, ..., have no place in public matters.
So yeah, I understand the problem with that prayer board. It's a public school. If she wants to profess and spread her faith, she should do it in a private, christian school.
Why don't we all, from now-on, start forcefully interjecting so-called strong atheism into every aspect of public life in our society (throughout the media at all times, in all public and private schools at all times, at all levels of government and in every type of public and private institution at all times) . . . throwing it in everyone's faces and up everyone's posteriors every single chance we get? Of course, I'm just being facetitious here! I would never ever ever ever ever condone doing such a thing and am not a so-called "strong atheist" myself anyway but am just trying to make a point here. The evangelical Christian element (or at least so many of those arguing in this thread) feel that it is their own prerogative to do this very thing (or at least nearly so) to the rest of society but, if the shoe were on the other foot, they'd be crying "foul" (and rightly so). And yet they act like they really really really don't get and appreciate this point . . . this blatant hypocrisy of theirs. Like one needs to have a PhD from Harvard University, a postdoctoral fellowship from Oxford University, and a endowed chair at Stanford University to be capable of seeing and appreciating the point being made here. The fact is that such educational attainments are not necessary to grasp this concept. My friends, it is not rocket science! The philosophy underlying it can be stated simply as "Treat other people the same way that you would want to be treated" . . . and then, by implication, this is also saying ". . . and don't treat others in ways that you yourself would not want to be treated." It is really really really that simple. Really! We can call it "grade school-level morality" that nearly any person (other than those that are unfortunately brain-addled or psychopathic) should be able to understand and appreciate simply by virtue of being alive. Really!
Note that what is called "secularism" (as in this poster here having said "We live in a secular country") is NOT the same as "atheism" or even "agnosticism". The word "secularism", when used in this context, simply means "neutrality". That is, our society is set up (and should be set up) to be religion-neutral (not promoting belief nor disbelief but rather remaining wholly neutral and uninvolved in such issues and keeping such concerns strictly confined to the private domain and hence out of the public domain). Our government-sponsored institutions and bodies are NOT to be used to condone nor lend support (either explicit nor implicit) to ANY particular religious system of thought or stance (even including atheism, agnosticism, Unitarianism, and humanism). They are to ALWAYS remain completely NEUTRAL. Is that clear? You believers really really really wouldn't want it any other way if the shoe was on the other foot. Trust me. You wouldn't and you would be crying "foul" if the shoe were on the other foot.
That is because of the tax checkoff system Germany has for supporting churches. I'm surprised it still exists, a carry over from the Reformation, but so be it. I understand from my German cousins that the system, which allowed that bishop in Bavaria to order a $40,000 bathtub funded from the check offs, is waning, and there is some pressure to eliminate it.
It is not a compulsory tax here. You get to choose your religion when registering your residency and the money taken out of your salary every month (think its 1 or 2 % I have not checked recently) goes to that religion. If you register no religion, a slightly reduced quantity of tax is still taken from you, but is put into secular social areas.
When I worked in a petrol station in Ireland to fund my college career, one of the regulars was a local Catholic Bishop. Who was in twice a week to fuel his Lexus with his Gold Credit Card. So yea, between the bathtubs in Bavaria and the Lexus cars in Ireland, I know where this "Charitable tax exempt" organisation likes to send a lot of the funds people are taxed, or willingly throw into the donations basket at Mass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
So if God was proven to your satisfaction to be true, would you worship Him or give Him the finger and go to hell?
That depends on the god in question. Even if there is a god, that does not mean it is the one you particularly worship. So I will hold off until someone like you actually establishes there even IS a non human intentional or intelligent agency that exists before I start asking any questions about who it is and what my opinion of it is.
But alas since you maintain this ongoing "I have 100 proofs but I will not be telling you what they are ever" MO you hide behind, we are not going to get anywhere near that level of conversation any time soon.
Sorry but I do read sarcasm and a tint of mockery in your tone so there would be pretty much zero chance that you would consider any of my proofs for a second.
Funny how mockery and sarcasm show up just in the nick of time to prevent you from having to back up anything you say.
Why don't we all, from now-on, start forcefully interjecting so-called strong atheism into every aspect of public life in our society (throughout the media at all times, in all public and private schools at all times, at all levels of government and in every type of public and private institution at all times) . . . throwing it in everyone's faces and up everyone's posteriors every single chance we get?
Seems like you are doing that already by demanding that any trace of religion be removed from your sight in public. A community can no longer enjoy and promote their traditions and religious values. Then our children go to a public school where they are forced taught that man is nothing more than another species of animal and morality is irrelevant.
Seems like you are doing that already by demanding that any trace of religion be removed from your sight in public. A community can no longer enjoy and promote their traditions and religious values. Then our children go to a public school where they are forced taught that man is nothing more than another species of animal and morality is irrelevant.
Your children are being taught that morality is irrelevant??? Please enlighten us. Where is the course syllabus that says that the school is including "morality is irrelevant" in a class? I REALLY want to read that.
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