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Oh right ... because believers never EVER mention their faith.
The hypocrisy in this thread is getting thick enough to create a runaway greenhouse effect.
The difference, of course, is that we are motivated out of a positive belief about God -- that God is good, and that he wants us to evangelize. Atheists claim to not have belief...but we see them acting out and intentionally seeking to proselytize and tell others about their lack of belief.
Again...I don't believe in Santa Claus, but you don't see me putting up billboards outside of the Toys R Us store to make sure all the kids learn of my disbelief. I have better things to do with my life than to waste my energy tearing down others simply for the sake of destroying their faith. How small must one's life be to go and set up a stupid display in a capital building to whine about religion? Just get a life already people!
I'm sorry. Just as I don't feel oppressed by PBS, I don't see how these folks feel oppressed by a Nativity scene. I can't imagine a life so small that they actually have time and energy to get so worked up over something so trivial.
How interesting. Apparently only atheists have lives so "small" that they would get "worked up" by something "so trivial."
Never mind the fact that Christians seem more than willing to get worked up about the same trivial things.
Otherwise these threads would comprise of only the original post.
I guess when you're defending your religion from the mean old atheists, nothing is too trivial to get upset about.
It's the same thing as complaining about how trivial and small-lived a person is for bragging about Superman being the best superhero ever ... and then getting into a protracted debate over whether or not Superman is better than Wolverine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
But again, this clearly answers the question that the OP asked about whether or not atheists simply want to be left alone. Obviously in this case the answer is "NO".
Okay, let's put this sick puppy to bed once and for all.
Most atheists as individuals want to be left alone. But in any large group of people, there is never going to be 100% agreement on anything. Atheists are just as diverse as any other group.
Just because a small subsection of atheists want to run around pushing back against the steamrolling influence of Christianity doesn't mean every atheist is out there fighting. It doesn't change the fact that most atheists just want to be left alone.
And even those that DO want to be left alone, among them, that doesn't mean that they won't stand up and fight when they feel the cause is righteous enough and the need great enough. Most atheists couldn't give a flying boff about Nativity scenes ... but some do. And it's quite obvious that some Christians are just as concerned about the Nativity scenes as those atheists are which means BOTH groups are engaged in triviality.
But it is downright ridiculous to make these broad, sweeping generalizations about atheists based on extremes. After all, Christians are very quick to point out when atheists allow Christian extremists to have an undue influence on their opinions ... so what makes you think that it's any more correct for a Christian to allow atheist extremes to have an undue influence on THEIR opinions?
Trying to "prove" that atheists don't want to be left alone is absurd in the extreme -- and, in my opinion, even more trivial than where Nativity scenes are allowed to be displayed.
The difference, of course, is that we are motivated out of a positive belief about God -- that God is good, and that he wants us to evangelize. Atheists claim to not have belief...but we see them acting out and intentionally seeking to proselytize and tell others about their lack of belief.
Again...I don't believe in Santa Claus, but you don't see me putting up billboards outside of the Toys R Us store to make sure all the kids learn of my disbelief. I have better things to do with my life than to waste my energy tearing down others simply for the sake of destroying their faith. How small must one's life be to go and set up a stupid display in a capital building to whine about religion? Just get a life already people!
No--atheists do not simply want to be left alone.
Religion can be harmful to individuals and society. Religion preys on vulnerable people. Religion can also be used to bully and manipulate. Some of this bullying and manipulation is institutionalized.
You have gone on the record as saying that all humans deserve to be killed and then tortured for eternity by your God until they submit to you...ehem...him. That is not a healthy belief for individuals or society as a whole.
Some atheists are vocal about this. Naturally, you don't like it when they speak out, but they have every right to question the ideas you are attempting to spread in public.
I'm sorry. Just as I don't feel oppressed by PBS, I don't see how these folks feel oppressed by a Nativity scene. I can't imagine a life so small that they actually have time and energy to get so worked up over something so trivial.
Do you feel oppressed by the atheists setting up their display?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
But again, this clearly answers the question that the OP asked about whether or not atheists simply want to be left alone. Obviously in this case the answer is "NO".
That's valid. If "left alone" in the OP question means "sit quietly in a corner hiding their views lest theists be offended" then I agree with you. That is not what most atheists want.
So the group who wanted to put up a Nativity scene, why are they not simply living and let live in an attempt to be left alone? Or was it OK for them, but not OK for the atheists?
If you live in a community, you know where the churches are. They have buildings with signs on them. But do you know where the local atheists are? Often, people don't. But, in your particular town in Nebraska, locals are likely now aware of how to get in touch with other local atheists.
I know that it can attract a lot of criticism for atheists even in going outward
. Probably the least 'offensive' is the Atheist experience but even that had a caller complaining (Matt or Tracie compared their ONE show with the dozens of televangelical shows) and that is informing and discussing - which is what we do here.
The religion forum etc are supposed to have all creeds their say rather than it being a vehicle for the goddless, but the nature of the beast has always been that Christianity dominated, and now, if it is changing in emphasis, if they can't make their case stick, what cause have they for complaint?
Apart from that are the various ploys and tactics from a zombie Jesus march and Zombie Jesus nativity and the Dawkins atheist advertisement to probing as 1o commandment monuments, prayer-boards in schools, anti -gay wrangles and getting bibles out of Public buildings and off public vehicles ( I am still waiting to hear whether that Police -chief is seeing life from the other side of the bars).
It's a learning curve, and the tactics are those of the Votes or women, Quit India campaign, the racial and sexual equality campaigns. Compared to the hassle they had, we goddless bastards have it easy the attacks and vilification are polemic, nit physical or legal, and the ones seeing the inside of the clink are the opposition. The law is on our side, too. We are aiming at changing ideas not laws.
So the only problem we have is the prejudice against atheism even by those who are irreligion or agnostic. And our small numbers of course. That is the problem that is only going to be amended by talking, explaining and changing perceptions out there.
Left alone is perhaps the end aim for everyone - to be able to practice their religion or lack of religion without interference. but right now 'left alone' is what we - the militant ones, at least - really don't need, just now.
The difference, of course, is that we are motivated out of a positive belief about God -- that God is good, and that he wants us to evangelize. Atheists claim to not have belief...but we see them acting out and intentionally seeking to proselytize and tell others about their lack of belief.
The difference is that way too many Christians believe that atheists shouldn't have a voice, that the 1st Amendment only applies to Christians.
This is why I continue, and will continue to continue, warning everyone who will listen about the dangers of theocratic fascism.
And people like you continue to demonstrate that Christian fascism is alive and well in the unfortunately-nicknamed "Land of the Free."
Because I'm really getting sick and tired of even having a debate about how atheists are "acting out" when we tell others about our lack of belief, that we're supposed to allow Christianity and religion in general to have the only voice. Atheists, of course, are supposed to shut up and sit down because, obviously, people like you don't WANT us to spread our point of view to others. No, only YOU are permitted to evangelize or even talk about religion and God at all.
Just like that person who just had to drop his little one-line snipe attack against atheists whining about the fact that we actually tell people that we're atheists.
What kind of unmitigated crap is that? It wasn't even an argument or a constructive or productive addition to the discussion. And yet, here you are, defending him with yet ANOTHER Christian exception. "Oh but we're allowed to talk about our faith ... but you're not!"
And then you have the temerity to wonder why some atheists are fighting back.
Talk about obtuse ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
Again...I don't believe in Santa Claus, but you don't see me putting up billboards outside of the Toys R Us store to make sure all the kids learn of my disbelief.
'
You just don't want kids to know about atheism. That's all it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
I have better things to do with my life than to waste my energy tearing down others simply for the sake of destroying their faith.
Stop lying. Just stop lying. This has NOTHING to do with whether or not someone has "better things to do with their lives."
This has EVERYTHING to do with you and your ilk desiring to stifle and squelch the freedoms atheists have in this country. Naturally you aren't going to pitch a fit if there are Christian billboards everywhere and you're certainly not going to claim that you have "better things to do with your life" than brainwash everyone into following your primitive superstitions. No, it's only atheists that better shut up because you're a fascist. Period.
Never once, not in all of my posts, have I EVER disputed a Christian's right to express himself, but unfortunately there are WAY too many people like you that refuse to give the same rights, respect, and courtesy to others -- especially if they are espousing a point of view that you disagree with. But that's what fascism is all about, isn't it. Censoring and destroying any dissenting opinion.
Even having to carry on this kind of discussion is abhorrent to me ... and it exemplifies nicely why I am so anti-fundamentalism. It is oppressive and tyrannical, and people like you keep proving that fact again and again and again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
How small must one's life be to go and set up a stupid display in a capital building to whine about religion? Just get a life already people!
Why don't you go get one of your own? I'm not sure which is worse. Those who set up a display or those who constantly whine about it.
In fact, every time atheists rent space or set up a display to put across their own beliefs for others to see, you throw a rotten fit. Boo-effing-hoo. Someone might see a display from an atheist and not succumb to the brainwashing. Oh woe is me. Would you like me to buy a beer for you to cry in?
This is one area that you and I will never have civil discourse about because I oppose your anti-freedom and wholly un-American nonsense with every fiber of my being. YOU and your ilk is the very reason why atheists can't afford to just sit down and remain quiet. If we did that, people like you would steamroll over our rights. I wouldn't be surprised if you folks didn't attempt to establish your own Christian version of the Nuremberg Laws -- perhaps strip atheists of their citizenship and make it illegal for a Christian to marry an atheist, and other such similar laws. It's just too bad Rudolph Hess isn't around to give you some legal pointers on how to craft them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
No--atheists do not simply want to be left alone.
With people like you around, it's impossible to be left alone. Not if they appreciate their freedoms, at any rate. Fundamentalism forces people who would rather be left alone to get up and fight, to push back, to make sure that their voices aren't lost within the tyranny that is fundamentalism.
And then certain people actually get angry when I compare Christian fundamentalism with Islamic fundamentalism. They're two peas in the same damn pod. If not for our secular laws and the Constitution, I'd probably be in a concentration camp right now.
The difference, of course, is that we are motivated out of a positive belief about God -- that God is good, and that he wants us to evangelize. Atheists claim to not have belief...but we see them acting out and intentionally seeking to proselytize and tell others about their lack of belief.
Again...I don't believe in Santa Claus, but you don't see me putting up billboards outside of the Toys R Us store to make sure all the kids learn of my disbelief. I have better things to do with my life than to waste my energy tearing down others simply for the sake of destroying their faith. How small must one's life be to go and set up a stupid display in a capital building to whine about religion? Just get a life already people!
No--atheists do not simply want to be left alone.
You really don't see the irony in that statement, do you?
Look up 'Roy Moore'; he put a five thousand pound monument (topped by the two tablets bearing the Ten Commandments) in the central rotunda of the Alabama State Judicial Building -- and refused to obey a federal judge's order to remove it.
And you think athiests need to get a life?
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the attacks and vilification are polemic, nit physical or legal, and the ones seeing the inside of the clink are the opposition. 
The law is on our side, too. We are aiming at changing ideas not laws. 
Much more. 
