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If a person with tunnel vision only listened to atheists, they would believe that Christians are pretty much the scum of society. They are bullies cramming their beliefs down the throats of non-believers, demanding that they conform and change all the laws to be stamped approved by evangelical Christians.
Atheists just want to be left alone! Live in peace, work and raise their families without Christianity constantly trying to butt into their lives, right? If that is the case, why do we have this:
Isn't this loud big billboard doing the exact thing they are complaining about? It is a big whopping advertisement for secularism promoting the value of skipping church. The atheists knew full well that such a message on Christmas would offend a lot of people, but that is obviously the intent.
Actually, if they listened to TV evangelists and fundies in general they would have a real basis for believing "christians" with the god-in-a-tiny-little-box-all-jealous-of the-red-cup-logo are pretty much scum of the religious world?
The fundies are bullies, cramming their FEARS down the throats of society, demanding the LAWS be changed to aligned with their twisted / demented belief in a man written book over 2,000 years old that can NEVER be verified as originals are LONG LOST yet fundies demand we all conform to their interpretation and fit the cookie cutter mold.
Fundies just want to be left alone, isolated on their own little island where they can sit around all day, comparing SINS and then challenge each other (Like name that tune) to how few words they can use to repent of the greatest sins al the while thumping their chest proclaiming gleefully THANK god-in-a-tiny-little-box-all-jealous-of the-red-cup-logo I AM NOT LIKE THOSE FOOLISH HEATHENS WHO LAUGH, ENJOY LIFE and EMBRACE a GOD OF MERCY, JUSTICE and LOVE....
Thanks for reminding me what God is REALLY all about.
Strange thing now though...NoCapo is now claiming it doesn't count. But that's just because it would set a precedent of accepting definitions that is fatal to the Atheist argument.
Trying to claim that God could mean anything is fatal to any argument no matter what it is.
Because, at that point, God becomes synonymous with the word "thing."
Meaning that the word "God" is so vague and ambiguous that it fails to communicate much of anything to the listener/reader.
And we all know how frustrating it is when you ask someone where the TV remote is and they answer by saying, "It's over there next to the thing."
"Next to the ... thing? Do you mean the pillow? Or God?"
Trying to claim that God could mean anything is fatal to any argument no matter what it is.
Because, at that point, God becomes synonymous with the word "thing."
Meaning that the word "God" is so vague and ambiguous that it fails to communicate much of anything to the listener/reader.
And we all know how frustrating it is when you ask someone where the TV remote is and they answer by saying, "It's over there next to the thing."
"Next to the ... thing? Do you mean the pillow? Or God?"
Yes. Gldnrule seems to have the idea he has a solid winning argument by slapping the label "God" onto everything.
"God is real and exists and you know it.."
(refuting argument from Bible and problem of evil etc."
" That isn't the God I'm talking about!! Gocha!! I win !!"
He doesn't want to accept that this effectively means that he and his "God" have no part to play in the religion debate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80
Don't feed the...
Gldnrule isn't that..he is more of a needler-for-God. He argues stoutly and often makes good points or at least ones that make one think. Mainly about religion and society.
That's his value. he makes us think and debate for the lurkers and browsers, and that is the reason we are here.
When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
Trying to claim that God could mean anything is fatal to any argument no matter what it is.
Because, at that point, God becomes synonymous with the word "thing."
Meaning that the word "God" is so vague and ambiguous that it fails to communicate much of anything to the listener/reader.
And we all know how frustrating it is when you ask someone where the TV remote is and they answer by saying, "It's over there next to the thing."
"Next to the ... thing? Do you mean the pillow? Or God?"
Exactly! I am not trying to defend a specific point. I am not changing my logic to make sure I don't 'lose', I am trying to maintain some level of integrity and intellectual honesty in the discussion.
Words mean things. Context matters. And outside of formal logic, which this is not, arguments depend on both of these things. When you use language like Humpty-Dumpty [1], you essentially reduce your argument to:
If we assume glarbsnargle exists
and posit that glarbsnarlge = frobnitz
the frobnitz exists! I win!
The key to this argument is to change the meanings of glarbsnargle and frobnitz any time the logic fails. The words have no intrinsic meaning, so you make them mean whatever you need them to mean at the time... You might "win" but you have said nothing, conveyed no information, proven nothing other than the fact that you value feeling 'right' more than having a meaningful discussion.
This is why I reject it, not because I might be wrong. I welcome being wrong, it gives me a chance to learn and to improve.
-NoCapo
[1]"When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’
’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’
’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all." - Lewis Caroll
Actually, if they listened to TV evangelists and fundies in general they would have a real basis for believing "christians" with the god-in-a-tiny-little-box-all-jealous-of the-red-cup-logo are pretty much scum of the religious world?
The fundies are bullies, cramming their FEARS down the throats of society, demanding the LAWS be changed to aligned with their twisted / demented belief in a man written book over 2,000 years old that can NEVER be verified as originals are LONG LOST yet fundies demand we all conform to their interpretation and fit the cookie cutter mold.
I could say the exact same thing about atheists. Groups like FFRF most certainly are bullies, coming into communities far away and demanding that they tear down their community values and traditions. Demanding that laws be changed to align with THEIR beliefs to promote an "anything goes anti-religion" society.
We believe in the preservation of life. We believe it is better to give than receive. We believe it is better to forgive than harbor hatred or a grudge. We believe sexual immorality destroys societies. We believe in honoring our parents, senior citizens and veterans. If those are twisted and demented values then you have a warped sense of reality.
And then on top of that you throw out your disrespect for the Word of God blasting it as dated and unreliable. The Bible has been carefully preserved for hundreds of years and the Dead Sea Scrolls was an amazing find that backed up that reliability. Previous generations all held high respect for the Word of God so it's sad to see people of this generation just spit on it. Even our beloved leaders spoke of their respect like say, ummm Abraham Lincoln:
Quote:
"In regard to this great book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to men. All the good Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book. But for it we could not know right from wrong."
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28
Fundies just want to be left alone, isolated on their own little island where they can sit around all day, comparing SINS and then challenge each other (Like name that tune) to how few words they can use to repent of the greatest sins al the while thumping their chest proclaiming gleefully THANK god-in-a-tiny-little-box-all-jealous-of the-red-cup-logo I AM NOT LIKE THOSE FOOLISH HEATHENS WHO LAUGH, ENJOY LIFE and EMBRACE a GOD OF MERCY, JUSTICE and LOVE....
Thanks for reminding me what God is REALLY all about.
No we just don't want to see the values that made this country great be ripped apart by God's enemies.
Last edited by jeffbase40; 12-11-2015 at 07:58 AM..
I could say the exact same thing about atheists. Groups like FFRF most certainly are bullies, coming into communities far away and demanding that they tear down their community values and traditions. Demanding that laws be changed to align with THEIR beliefs to promote an "anything goes anti-religion" society.
The FFRF does not demand that laws be changed, only that existing laws be adhered to and respected.
Please relate to us examples of the FFRF demanding that a law be changed. NOTE: A local ordinance or organization policy or proclamation for example that is in conflict with state or federal or constitutional law is invalid in the first place. If perchance the FFRF has pointed something like that out on occasion, it is not "demanding that laws be changed".
The FFRF does not demand that laws be changed, only that existing laws be adhered to and respected.
Please relate to us examples of the FFRF demanding that a law be changed. NOTE: A local ordinance or organization policy or proclamation for example that is in conflict with state or federal or constitutional law is invalid in the first place. If perchance the FFRF has pointed something like that out on occasion, it is not "demanding that laws be changed".
They are constantly using the Establishment Clause to set up new barriers against religion. That may not be a new law entirely, but it becomes a new interpretation of the law. Otherwise, why would Supreme Court justices have to debate and argue over every situation that comes up? They are not even consistently in their rulings regarding the 1st amendment such as allowing government meetings to begin with a prayer.
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When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more
