Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I can tell you where this one was. He was marching arm-in-arm with two gay friends through London demanding equal rights for gays....and being spat at by 'Christians'. See pal, that's how long gays have been fighting for their rights and their dignity - right from the 80's, and they have only just received them, after all this time. And you know who kept their rights from them Jeff? It was people like you.
Quite right Raf!
People like Jeff want the world to go backwards in time, instead of moving forward. Thankfully, they are losing numbers every year.
For Jeff to keep up his narrative of persecution, it HAS TO BE a Christian vs Atheist issue. Otherwise, we heathens are simply good people who want equality, which would not fit into his terribly inaccurate portrayal of non believers.
I suspect he would not even be entirely against gay people being killed, because he would just assume that they were "bad people" who deserved it.
And that would be wrong. I would never support such a thing. I believe all people are equal. We are all beautiful unique creations from God worthy of love and having our gifts and talents. I think everyone has a right to exercise their God given free will and live whatever way makes them happy as long as it doesn't infringe on my freedoms.
The only thing you are doing is employing yet again the argumentum ad hominem fallacy. Which only goes to show that your arguments don't have any real substance.
No it's sad because it's true. And I can back it up. How many atheist threads on this forum are there about the current state of the Native Americans? I'm willing to bet it is close to ZERO. Talk about lack of equality. We came, stole their lands, forced them on reservation and to this day, their quality of life is Third World. 30% live below the poverty line and less than 50% have proper plumbing. Maybe it's just me, but I see that as a much more serious problem than Bob and Steve not being able to get a marriage license in a particular state.
Tell me Wallflash, why are you and your fellow atheists not out there passionately fighting for the rights of Native Americans?
Typical MO of Mr Jeff, when you cannot defend your statement make a new accustation.
What does Native American or First Nations rights have to do with Religion and Spirituality forum? If Christains as a group were still obstructing native rights and the residental schools run by the churches were still in operation then we could have discussions about Native American rights, but as it is that is more of a political or current events discussion.
I support First Nations rights, I have voted for politicans who support their rights but as far as marching, I have not marched for any rights, there are many ways to throw ones support towards a cause. In my case I defend them in personal conversations with other people.
Animal rights, pollution of the oceans, fuel economy in new cars, health care are all other issues we may be interested in but do not fall under the auspices of this forum. If the debate over the right to die comes up and is presented as a religious issue I will post on it, if gay rights or the denying of rights to gay had no religious connection it would be wrong to discuss it on this forum as well.
But your interest in rights for the First People may just be a deflection on what you posted previous and do not or can not defend. The church's history with native people is not stellar and as Christians claim that yours is a Christian nation and always as been perhaps it is people like you that should be spending their time promoting their rights rather than trying to pervent others from having their rights. And I think most of the churches are working with natives to ammend their ways and assist with obtaining better treatment so why argue with them if we agree?
Some of us do fight for their rights, Jeff. I am part Poarch Creek, and live in an area close to a reservation. I have volunteered, and helped them in the past and present. My wife has helped out as well. She has worked with some of the kids by tutoring and counseling some. She has also been part of a group trying to help with alcoholism is Native American communities. My company helps out as well. I can only do so much. The better question is, why aren't YOU at your church asking them to help out if it is important to you?
Key word is "some". My point is if even a fraction of the people who railed against Christians on the gay issue put that same effort and outrage into the plight of Native Americans, we would probably see some real change.
Key word is "some". My point is if even a fraction of the people who railed against Christians on the gay issue put that same effort and outrage into the plight of Native Americans, we would probably see some real change.
But as always, you have to flip it back on me.
Are we supposed to simply accept whatever you say as fact and every accusation you make to us we need to accept without question as being true and that you do not have to defend any of your statements?
You have yet to answer your accusastion that I called Christianity a lie.
The only mistreating on this thread is Jeff mistreating everyone by expecting a pass on all his accustions and claims and then feeling attacked when he is questions about any of them. Either stop making baseless accustations or be able to defend them. That is what conversations and debates are about. Discussions are not about one party, in this case Jeff, gets to make any statement or claim they want and the rest have to quietly accept that as the absolute truth without question.
By the way Mortant had posted to another poster on this very thread that you were correct about some portions of the Bible not being literal so you may wish to change your statement that atheists have never said that a Christian was righ about anything.
I am not sure why you make the inference that only atheists defended or promoted LBGT rights, you are denying credit to many religious people and organizations, including many Christians. That is rather mean spirited to either deny them credit or deny them the right to be considered Christian
Last edited by badlander; 02-26-2016 at 09:58 AM..
Reason: added last paragraph
And that would be wrong. I would never support such a thing. I believe all people are equal. We are all beautiful unique creations from God worthy of love and having our gifts and talents. I think everyone has a right to exercise their God given free will and live whatever way makes them happy as long as it doesn't infringe on my freedoms.
The only thing you are doing is employing yet again the argumentum ad hominem fallacy. Which only goes to show that your arguments don't have any real substance.
You believe everyone is equal, huh? So, everyone is equal, they just don't deserve to be treated as such? That makes no sense, Jeffery.
Also, please explain to me how your "freedoms" being infringed upon? Keeping you from treating people as second class citizens, and keeping you from denying rights to gay people is not infringing on your freedom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Key word is "some". My point is if even a fraction of the people who railed against Christians on the gay issue put that same effort and outrage into the plight of Native Americans, we would probably see some real change.
But as always, you have to flip it back on me.
Ok, so "some" isn't good enough for you? Only "some" Christians help people, so I guess I should go rant on about how only "some" of you help people, which makes the rest of you irrelevant.
I told you what I do, as well as my family and my employer, I don't know what else you would like me to tell you. So yes, I am throwing it back on you. What do YOU do to help? You come on here and talk all about how atheists don't help Native Americans, so of course I would like to know how YOU do.
Last edited by southernbored; 02-26-2016 at 10:13 AM..
Reason: clarification
Are we supposed to simply accept whatever you say as fact and every accusation you make to us we need to accept without question as being true and that you do not have to defend any of your statements?
You have yet to answer your accusastion that I called Christianity a lie.
The only mistreating on this thread is Jeff mistreating everyone by expecting a pass on all his accustions and claims and then feeling attacked when he is questions about any of them. Either stop making baseless accustations or be able to defend them. That is what conversations and debates are about. Discussions are not about one party, in this case Jeff, gets to make any statement or claim they want and the rest have to quietly accept that as the absolute truth without question.
By the way Mortant had posted to another poster on this very thread that you were correct about some portions of the Bible not being literal so you may wish to change your statement that atheists have never said that a Christian was righ about anything.
I am not sure why you make the inference that only atheists defended or promoted LBGT rights, you are denying credit to many religious people and organizations, including many Christians. That is rather mean spirited to either deny them credit or deny them the right to be considered Christian
Jeff has a way of doing that.... He doesn't answer questions, and makes accusations on a daily basis.
Your last paragraph could not be more true. In fact, there are several people of religious persuasion on this very site that defended and promoted LGBT rights. They were not of Jeff's religious persuasion though.
Why not Jeff? Yahweh says that they must be put to death. Will you disobey Yahweh..huh Jeff...huh??
Same reason I don't sacrifice goats or bury my dung. I'll just leave it at that.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
