Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Bigfoot either exists or he doesn't therefore the a priori probability is 50/50. Therefore the complete lack of any belief regarding Bigfoot's existence would be 50/50. If you don't believe that the probability is 50/50 thing you have formed a belief
Why do people get their panties in a wad over whether atheists have a belief or a lack of belief?
Do theist have some need for non theists to possess belief also, even if it's a belief that something doesn't exist ?
What's the deal ?
It is a lame attempt at false equivalence coupled with willful ignorance of philosophy 101. The motivation is to try to gain some legitimacy for their beliefs by pointing out that unbelievers have beliefs too (just the illogic of that phrase should tell you something!).
What they insist on ignoring is that we are declining to afford belief to their positive truth-claim -- not making one of our own. As I pointed out to grandpa, if I make a positive knowledge claim "your god doesn't exist" then I would have to defend it. But I am rejecting HIS positive knowledge claim that his god exists. The two things are very different. The burden of proof is always on the positive claimant.
It is not our job as unbelievers to prove there isn't a god. It is the job of believers to prove that there IS, if, of course, they wish us to agree with their belief. If they don't care whether we believe or not, then we just part ways ... the go on making their baseless claims and we go on ignoring them as irrelevant.
The problem is that many theists want to extend their control to more and more people by getting them to assent to their dogma of choice. So they proselytize, marginalize, and otherize in an effort to further those aims. That is why all this back and forth in a forum like this -- why all the attempts to shift burden of proof where it doesn't belong, move the goalposts, deny and deflect. And why we unbelievers don't go along with it.
Why do people get their panties in a wad over whether atheists have a belief or a lack of belief?
my observation is that the only people who really care are the atheists themselves. perhaps it's because people like to talk about themselves. the people who most like to talk about atheists are atheists. it's sort of like a family tree.....nobody else is really remotely interested in someone else's family tree, but their own is intensely fascinating.
another example for comparison that comes to mind is that of an annoying younger sibling who tries to get the attention of the big brother, by doing things like calling him names, farting and laughing, eavesdropping on his conversations, things like that. Since they do not get positive attention, they strive for negative attention, since even that is better than being ignored.
i have no interest in what atheists do or don't believe. i couldn't care less. in the same way if I'm over here doing fascinating calculus problems, and a bunch of people over there are struggling with simple addition and saying math is stupid....for me that's just not interesting. It is one of a long list of topics that i simply don't care about, along with professional ice hockey, artificial finger nails, and shopping malls.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 04-04-2016 at 09:03 PM..
It is a lame attempt at false equivalence coupled with willful ignorance of philosophy 101. The motivation is to try to gain some legitimacy for their beliefs by pointing out that unbelievers have beliefs too (just the illogic of that phrase should tell you something!).
What they insist on ignoring is that we are declining to afford belief to their positive truth-claim -- not making one of our own. As I pointed out to grandpa, if I make a positive knowledge claim "your god doesn't exist" then I would have to defend it. But I am rejecting HIS positive knowledge claim that his god exists. The two things are very different. The burden of proof is always on the positive claimant.
It is not our job as unbelievers to prove there isn't a god. It is the job of believers to prove that there IS, if, of course, they wish us to agree with their belief. If they don't care whether we believe or not, then we just part ways ... the go on making their baseless claims and we go on ignoring them as irrelevant.
The problem is that many theists want to extend their control to more and more people by getting them to assent to their dogma of choice. So they proselytize, marginalize, and otherize in an effort to further those aims. That is why all this back and forth in a forum like this -- why all the attempts to shift burden of proof where it doesn't belong, move the goalposts, deny and deflect. And why we unbelievers don't go along with it.
Nobody is asking you to prove anything dude. If you don't believe that God exists that's fine. That is your belief. I can't understand why you feel the need to deny that you have a belief. You should be proud of your beliefs. You should stand behind your beliefs.
I would ask the opposite question. Why do atheists feel the need to deny that they have any belief?
Because theists try to then frame it as a " belief system" of atheism . For me to say that I don't believe Santa Claus is real , and to say I disbelieve in Santa Claus is the same thing , so in that sense you can say I have both belief and disbelief, depending on how you want to semantically word the answer . What I DONT have is a belief system that denies Santa Claus . I simply don't believe in him.
Theists for some reason feel the need to pretend that a lack of belief, or a belief in the non existence of something is a system of belief analogous to the positive belief systems of theists . It isn't, and atheists make this distinction.
the only people who really care are the atheists themselves. perhaps it's because people like to talk about themselves. the people who most like to talk about atheists are atheists. it's sort of like a family tree.....nobody else is really remotely interested in someone else's family tree, but their own is intensely fascinating.
Completely untrue . I have observed numerous theists arguing vociferously with atheists proclaiming that atheists do indeed possess a belief system of non belief , whatever that is .
I would ask the opposite question. Why do atheists feel the need to deny that they have any belief?
Because I dislike lying? That's why I personally draw the distinction between a positive belief in the non-existence of God, and the lack of a positive belief in the existence of God. I find it necessary to do so to avoid miscommunication.
On the other hand, maybe you are really asking is why do I have a lack of belief rather than a belief in the non-existence of God. The answer is that one position is a rational position to take, the other requires an irrational leap of faith. Quite frankly I have had enough irrational beliefs in my life, and in many areas still have to make little leaps of faith every day to function. I don't see the point in making this one, I am satisfied to simply follow the evidence where it goes, I need no belief, no jumping to unsupported conclusions. Thats why I choose not to make the positive claim that a god does not or cannot exist.
-NoCapo
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
