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If Jesus really did rise from the dead and become immortal, he'd still be walking among us today. Think of all the converts to the One True Faith he'd be winning daily by appearing on all the daytime talk shows.
If Jesus really did rise from the dead and become immortal, he'd still be walking among us today. Think of all the converts to the One True Faith he'd be winning daily by appearing on all the daytime talk shows.
Ah but see...he dosen't want his followersbto believe like that. He wants them to believe by that dumb thing called....'faith'.
None of the 500 witnesses nor any of the thousands they would reasonably have told left any written records.
You should take note, too, that the so-called "witnesses" are all confederates of Jesus, so their testimony is suspect.
Jesus never appears before anyone who truly matters. For example, Jesus doesn't appear before Pilate, or before the Pharisees or Sadducees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aristotles child
Based on the evidence, what historical credibility does the fact of the Resurrection have?
The four "gospels" conflict greatly about the Resurrection.
I would submit that he didn't actually die; that he was drugged with opium while being crucified; that the guards were bribed; and that he subsequently fled the region to avoid death. Since he didn't die, he couldn't appear before Pilate or the Pharisees, because they would have run him through with a sword or spear as a test to prove he had risen...and then he really would be dead.
A key point of evidence is when Jesus tells Mary (Magdalene) in one account, "Do not touch me, for I have not yet ascended." The simple fact was that he wasn't really dead and certainly wasn't prepared to answer questions about it. There's also the fact that Jesus furtively moved about crowds in the city disguised with a facial covering. He was listening in on conversations to see if the "revolution" was successful (it was not).
I wonder if somehow in the hundreds of years, the idea of the resurrection was one of the things that got really warped - changed a lot after it was told and retold, written and rewritten - translated/retranslated, edited, re-edited.
Maybe, originally, Jesus taught of a spiritual resurrection - of coming back from spiritual death.
IE: I personally don't see Jesus as the type of person who would tell of his birth just so everyone would celebrate his birthday and worship him. "Without a parable spake he not unto them." His birth was a parable of spiritual birth - and maybe also the miraculous birth we all were given. There are a lot of scriptures that talk about "living water" and eternal life - so it's probable that originally, he meant to teach of spiritual resurrection, and not physical resurrection (besides reincarnation).
Moreover, I can't think of anything more reassuring to someone who's recently lost someone they loved, to have hope of being with them again someday. The resurrection idea offers that hope. Although I don't believe it happens as orthodox Christianity suggests, I do believe that conscious energy will continue after death - and I have reason to believe that in some way, we will be with those we are connected to again, after death.
I wonder if somehow in the hundreds of years, the idea of the resurrection was one of the things that got really warped - changed a lot after it was told and retold, written and rewritten - translated/retranslated, edited, re-edited.
Maybe, originally, Jesus taught of a spiritual resurrection - of coming back from spiritual death.
IE: I personally don't see Jesus as the type of person who would tell of his birth just so everyone would celebrate his birthday and worship him. "Without a parable spake he not unto them." His birth was a parable of spiritual birth - and maybe also the miraculous birth we all were given. There are a lot of scriptures that talk about "living water" and eternal life - so it's probable that originally, he meant to teach of spiritual resurrection, and not physical resurrection (besides reincarnation).
Moreover, I can't think of anything more reassuring to someone who's recently lost someone they loved, to have hope of being with them again someday. The resurrection idea offers that hope. Although I don't believe it happens as orthodox Christianity suggests, I do believe that conscious energy will continue after death - and I have reason to believe that in some way, we will be with those we are connected to again, after death.
You should take note, too, that the so-called "witnesses" are all confederates of Jesus, so their testimony is suspect.
Jesus never appears before anyone who truly matters. For example, Jesus doesn't appear before Pilate, or before the Pharisees or Sadducees.
The four "gospels" conflict greatly about the Resurrection.
I would submit that he didn't actually die; that he was drugged with opium while being crucified; that the guards were bribed; and that he subsequently fled the region to avoid death. Since he didn't die, he couldn't appear before Pilate or the Pharisees, because they would have run him through with a sword or spear as a test to prove he had risen...and then he really would be dead.
A key point of evidence is when Jesus tells Mary (Magdalene) in one account, "Do not touch me, for I have not yet ascended." The simple fact was that he wasn't really dead and certainly wasn't prepared to answer questions about it. There's also the fact that Jesus furtively moved about crowds in the city disguised with a facial covering. He was listening in on conversations to see if the "revolution" was successful (it was not).
Very good. And in fact a couple of decades ago, I thought that was really what happened. The fact is that, if you take the gospels as reliable, a plot to get Jesus off the cross alive is the conclusion. But then I found the gospels weren't reliable and the stories conflict so much that I think it likely that Jesus simply died as Pilate intended and there was no resurrection account - so three conflicting ones were concocted.
The contradictions really make the spear -thrust and indeed the tomb guard individual inventions, just like Mark having Pilate express surprise that Jesus was already dead.
It's a pity, as the resurrection plot is very attractive - like the Lazarus resurrection fake. That, if taken as reliable, shouts 'put up job'. But the account is not reliable and I rather put it down to John's invention.
There are objections to all of this of course, some poor: 'millions would not die for a lie!' - yes they would, and have all through history.
And some good - I can't deny that Paul is probably real, and he knew the disciples (and didn't always get along with them) and surely got the resurrection -idea from them. So, if Jesus never resurrected, why would they think he had?
As a child, I was brought up to believe the story of the resurrection. I became very interested in religion, looking at a variety of sources and discovered what made sense, that Jesus' placement on the stake/cross was questionable, actually the whole thing. And, it doesn't "fit" since one of the Commandments is to worship only one God. This is an example, weak one, but what I could find quickly of what changed my mind: The biggest cover up of human history : The revelations that Jesus didn't die on the cross | Technology of the Heart
Some years ago, I saw a television special on this. I have to go with what makes sense at which time I wrote off the New Testament, but not God, of course.
I think the whole thing of Jesus sold because of the "by faith alone" rather than living by the laws of God.
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