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Take away the threat of eternal torment and Christianity is rendered meaningless because there's nothing for Jesus to save us from.
Not so, Thrill. We humans would not have become connected to God's consciousness without the accomplishment of the very human Jesus - God's Firstborn Son of Man.
I have my own unique criteria for rendering Christianity completely void: forget about the resurrection. It can neither be proved or disproved so that's a stalemate. What CAN be proved however, is that Jesus NEVER said "...that whosoever [doesn't] believe in him shall perish and [NOT] have everlasting life" (John 3:16)and "If you don't believe in me you will die in your sins." John 8:24
Take away the threat of eternal torment and Christianity is rendered meaningless because there's nothing for Jesus to save us from.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Not so, Thrill. We humans would not have become connected to God's consciousness without the accomplishment of the very human Jesus - God's Firstborn Son of Man.
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Originally Posted by Arach Angle
I have to agree with that part.
eternal torment can go away and Jesus taken in a non literal manor can still help people.
Yeah, I think you misunderstood me, Mystic. You're saying we need eternal torment. But you've stated in the past it's a false doctrine. I can go with your belief that some people need Jesus Christ. He's like a life raft for them in a sea of troubled waters. That's perfectly okay to use Jesus as a crutch. But lots of people don't need him and they certainly don't need eternal torment in hell. So why not just pitch the whole thing?
Yeah, I think you misunderstood me, Mystic. You're saying we need eternal torment. But you've stated in the past it's a false doctrine. I can go with your belief that some people need Jesus Christ. He's like a life raft for them in a sea of troubled waters. That's perfectly okay to use Jesus as a crutch. But lots of people don't need him and they certainly don't need eternal torment in hell. So why not just shcan the whole thing?
I can't argue with that logic either.
and lets face it, if so many of them weren't running around telling people they are less human unless they believe in Jesus as savor and we are born evil and need jesus, we wouldn't even ...
Yeah, I think you misunderstood me, Mystic. You're saying we need eternal torment. But you've stated in the past it's a false doctrine. I can go with your belief that some people need Jesus Christ. He's like a life raft for them in a sea of troubled waters. That's perfectly okay to use Jesus as a crutch. But lots of people don't need him and they certainly don't need eternal torment in hell. So why not just pitch the whole thing?
No, Thrill, you misunderstand me. There is no eternal torment, period. But our purpose in existing is to join God after our death and NONE of us were achieving it. THAT is why we needed Jesus. He connected us all to God by His achievement of perfect resonance (IDENTITY) with God's consciousness, something we were very far from achieving and still are.
No, Thrill, you misunderstand me. There is no eternal torment, period. But our purpose in existing is to join God after our death and NONE of us were achieving it. THAT is why we needed Jesus. He connected us all to God by His achievement of perfect resonance (IDENTITY) with God's consciousness, something we were very far from achieving and still are.
Yes, Arach. We are all supposed to try to come as close as we can to the same consciousness, but our imperfections no longer interfere thank to His perfection (Grace).
Yes, Arach. We are all supposed to try to come as close as we can to the same consciousness, but our imperfections no longer interfere thank to His perfection (Grace).
I don't agree with that last part. they matter, but with good teachers or guides, like jesus, we can lesson the hurt our imperfections cause to others.
I don't agree with that last part. they matter, but with good teachers or guides, like jesus, we can lesson the hurt our imperfections cause to others.
Our struggles and persecutions are what bring us to a state of humility. Humility is what allows people to have faith.
I don't agree with that last part. they matter, but with good teachers or guides, like Jesus, we can lessen the hurt our imperfections cause to others.
Yes, our imperfections have consequences and we will all have to "reap whatever we sow" but at least our species has achieved its fundamental purpose - to connect and join with God after death, IMO.
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