Atheism is very appealing, particularly if you are rich and powerful. (believers, verse)

[Skyl3r]

Originally Posted by Jobster

Petunia, how can there be consequences in the afterlife if there is no afterlife?

You've now demonstrated that you recognize there's a difference between "no consequences", which was your original claim, and "no consequences in the afterlife".
You're trying to portray these things as though they are the same, and they are not.

But, as you've felt the need to clarify that you mean consequences in the afterlife, I think you recognize that.

[Jobster]

Originally Posted by Petunia 100

We have consequences because they follow naturally.

For example, if I jump in the air, I will shortly return to the ground. Gravity makes no exception for me based on my beliefs.

What does that have to do with anything I've said? Did I say anything about defying the laws of physics?

Please don't insult my intelligence. I'm not claiming to be an "intellect", like Matadora, but I'm certainly not an idiot.

[Petunia 100]

Originally Posted by Jobster

Petunia, how can there be consequences in the afterlife if there is no afterlife?

Now you have modified your claim.

There are consequences in this life. I don't go around killing, maiming, and stealing primarily because I don't wish to. But if I chose to do any of those things, I believe there would be very real consequences.

I think that most people realize their actions have consequences.

[Petunia 100]

Originally Posted by Jobster

What does that have to do with anything I've said? Did I say anything about defying the laws of physics?

Please don't insult my intelligence. I'm not claiming to be an "intellect", like Matadora, but I'm certainly not an idiot.

It was an example, not an insult.

[Jobster]

Originally Posted by Petunia 100

Now you have modified your claim.

There are consequences in this life. I don't go around killing, maiming, and stealing primarily because I don't wish to. But if I chose to do any of those things, I believe there would be very real consequences.

I think that most people realize their actions have consequences.

This is really not difficult. Sit down and think for a moment or I'm not going to respond to you anymore.

Hillary Clinton violates the law. Does she go to jail?

No.

Petunia violates the law. Does she go to jail?

Yes.

Do you understand that there are power structures?

Who cares what you do. You are a nobody. You realize that right? You are inconsequential. You don't make any society altering decisions because you are at the bottom of the power structure.

So let's say you were in a society where leadership decided to exterminate you for a reason they thought was valid. What are the consequences for them if they don't have to fear retaliation from you?

Maybe it even became a societal norm, just as hatred of Jews became a norm during the Holocaust period. Do you now understand?

[Petunia 100]

Originally Posted by Jobster

This is really not difficult. Sit down and think for a moment or I'm not going to respond to you anymore.

Hillary Clinton violates the law. Does she go to jail?

No.

Petunia violates the law. Does she go to jail?

Yes.

Do you understand that there are power structures?

Who cares what you do. You are a nobody. You realize that right? You are inconsequential. You don't make any society altering decisions because you are at the bottom of the power structure.

So let's say you were in a society where leadership decided to exterminate you for a reason they thought was valid. What are the consequences for them if they don't have to fear retaliation from you?

Maybe it even became a societal norm, just as hatred of Jews became a norm during the Holocaust period. Do you now understand?

All this says to me is that you need to believe there are consequences in an afterlife because you perceive this life as being unfair.

You are correct in you assessment that life is not fair.

[GldnRule]

Originally Posted by RC01

Lack of belief is not a belief. It's more like "I see no evidence to believe that something is true, so I don't." It's not up to me to disprove something beyond a doubt before I don't believe that it is true. The burden of proof lies with one making the claim. And nobody has a problem with that logic until it comes to belief in a god, but then the tables are turned.

No. It isn't "Lack of Belief"...it is "Belief In A Lack". And the evidence bears that out.
Only "Belief In A Lack" constraints one to spends YEARS preaching that Belief to strangers. You see Atheists here with hundreds, thousands, TENS OF THOUSANDS of posts to this board, and others like it. Touting the NonBelief Doctrine of The Atheist Religion.

The determination you make in your first sentence, "I see no evidence to believe that something is true, so I don't.",...is not logical.

Let me give you an example:
I show you someone with a closed fist, and ask you if you believe a small amulet exists within the confines of their hand.
Is it logical and reasonable to take the position that you do not believe there is a amulet in their hand, on no other basis than that you have been presented no evidence that there is?
Would that pass muster from a standpoint of Pure Logic?
Now...what if after I ask you that question...I then show you writings that are the most epic writings in the world that say all the members of that persons family always carry an amulet in their hand for the past 100 generations. Also, I bring you a billion people that give personal testimony and say they have anecdotal evidence that that person always carries an amulet.
This may not be objective evidence, but it is evidence to be considered. Making it even less logical for one to insist that it is reasonable to determine they have have no amulet in their hand unless they are presented proof beyond any doubt.
You are choosing not to believe it, not just "lacking belief" at that point. You have made a determination as to your Belief Position on the matter.
In fact, in the example I gave, based upon a preponderance of the evidence, it would be more reasonable to say either, "I can't be certain, but most likely there is.", or, "I still don't know". It would even be kinda inane for someone to say, "I lack belief in an amulet in that persons hand". Either you believe there is, or you don't.
The same with the existence of a God Entity...either you believe a God Entity exists, or you don't. Only those that have never considered the matter could reasonably claim "Lack Of Belief".

See..."Burden of proof" would be on the "God Exists" claim...all else being equal--But, all things ARE NOT equal.

"God Exists" has been the "norm" (8to9 out of 10) for THOOOOOOOUSANDS of years. It's the "incumbent position"...the "ruling viewpoint"...the "champion concept"! "God Exists" doesn't have to prove itself...it currently "holds office"!
"God Exists" has been sooooooo prolific, for sooooooo long...it can be considered a "Standard of Human Understanding".
When a concept reaches a "saturation point" that is to such a degree that it is considered to be "The Standard"...a position that deviates from that will have to prove itself to be given merit against the long established standard.
Since "GOD EXISTS" is the looooooong established WORLD STANDARD...anyone that wants to contest that, is going to have to prove THEIR case.

Just like Galileo had to PROVE the universe DOES NOT revolve around the Earth, since that concept was in opposition to the "long established standard" that it did...the Atheists will have to PROVE God DOES NOT exist, if they want their concept to be accepted as valid.
BTW...good luck with that. It will be much harder for you than it was for Galileo...since he was right, and you are wrong.

[Jobster]

Originally Posted by Petunia 100

All this says to me is that you need to believe there are consequences in an afterlife because you perceive this life as being unfair.

You are correct in you assessment that life is not fair.

What I think is irrelevant. I'm at the bottom of the power structure.

[Skyl3r]

Originally Posted by Petunia 100

All this says to me is that you need to believe there are consequences in an afterlife because you perceive this life as being unfair.

You are correct in you assessment that life is not fair.

This appears to be an accurate assessment.

[Petunia 100]

Originally Posted by Jobster

What I think is irrelevant. I'm at the bottom of the power structure.

We can all say that. Yet, here we are, discussing our various points of view.