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So a person reads a cook book, and it doesn't tell him how to repair a car, therefore he claims it is an unreliable source and any useful information it has on any topic whatsoever is a "lucky guess" or "accidental beliefs and not actual knowledge."
In terms of spiritual inspiration, etc., I have don't have much opinion on Holy books. I'm agnostic. But I don't think it is a good idea to attempt to draw knowledge about natural history or morality from the Bible - e.g. How old is the earth? Did humans evolve from apes? Did the sun really stand still in the sky for a day? Should people be stoned to death for adultery? (And was that ever, really, the morally best thing to do? Did an all-powerful, loving God really sanction that sort of thing?) Is homosexuality immoral? Did God really drown everybody in a great flood? etc.
I don't see holy books as good sources of factual information about these types of questions.
“I'm going to create man and woman and they will commit original sin. Next - I'm going to impregnate a teenage girl with myself as her child so that I may be born as a human. Later - I will kill myself as a blood sacrifice to myself so I can forgive them and save them from the sin I originally condemned them for.”
To add insult to injury God created sin himself as to which to save us from. He framed Adam and Eve KNOWING that they were going to disobey him. He told them NOT to eat the fruit off the tree not knowing it was wrong to disobey him, because they hadn't eat off the tree as of that point. So one could say that he framed them. So he set his creation up so he could play hero.
Very different approach than "how can I improve my character, live a life of integrity, treat others with ever more kindness dignity compassion kindness, give with generosity to charity"
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
This has nothing to do with belief in God. It is a worthy goal for any of us, period. The reason you are so off base in these discussions is that you are emoting and NOT reasoning. That is also why you accept without question everything written in your sacred texts even when it contradicts what you recommend in this very post. What you say in this quote has NOTHING to do with whether or not you believe in God or you accept what is in writings supposed to be from God. It expresses a goal we all would be wise to aspire to whatever we believe about God. Your focus on it obstructs your reasoning about the content of your beliefs about God. I guess it is a sign of the times that our society has become so sensitive and offense-taking instead of rational and reasoning.
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Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
No, my focus on it defines and personifies and represents and is deeply rooted in my beliefs about God.
I have no doubt about that whatsoever. It is fortunate that your beliefs evoke the very attitude Jesus taught and unambiguously demonstrated whatever your reasons. I disagree with your reasons, but I agree with the outcome.
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That is one of the (very VERY many) ways we differ. You say it has no relation to God and you separate it from God and you wave it away like many atheists on the board with "nothing to do with God."
You make the same mistake in reading virtually every time you read my posts. I said it has nothing to do with belief in God. What you say in this quote has NOTHING to do with whether or not you believe in God or you accept what is in writings supposed to be from God. It expresses a goal we all would be wise to aspire to whatever we believe about God. It is the goal Jesus taught but it does NOT in any way defend some of the seriously evil and barbaric things about God in the writings you revere.
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Whereas I say it has everything to do with God and I embrace it and chase after it every chance I get.
For me, it is part and parcel of God and it is part and parcel of religion. For me "there is no place where God is not." Clearly, you don't see it that way. There are so many places you seem to say God is not part of that, You seem fine with removing God from all sorts of places.
Since it is what Jesus taught, it is good that you "chase after it every chance I get." I do not believe I need to believe some of the heinous things you believe ABOUT God to "chase after it every chance I get."
But if a person doesn't know what they are reading, or how to read it, or what the book is about or what the book is for, then they are not going to understand it. When a person does, then it makes sense.
Which is why it continues to be seen and valued as a source of great wisdom.
yeah, that's all we are really saying. yes, they do have great personal growth wisdom in many areas. like I said, they saw that we are all connected and that's true. they speak to the notions of greed and overindulgence as a cause of great pain in our society. That were right again. humans came from something else, that is true. I say theists are misunderstanding it, but for 2000 years ago, and older, they nailed it.
what we say is that we must question these texted as we do every other text and when they don't match observation change them.
theists must stand up to the all or nothing stances. All or nothing outlook are the problem, not reasonable people being reasonable people. And, when a person is justifying a literal magical event as real i don't question the text. I expect the rational people to question the person. all we expect is that rational theist (people) lead the way over a holy book.
In terms of spiritual inspiration, etc., I have don't have much opinion on Holy books. I'm agnostic. But I don't think it is a good idea to attempt to draw knowledge about natural history or morality from the Bible - e.g. How old is the earth? Did humans evolve from apes? Did the sun really stand still in the sky for a day? Should people be stoned to death for adultery? (And was that ever, really, the morally best thing to do? Did an all-powerful, loving God really sanction that sort of thing?) Is homosexuality immoral? Did God really drown everybody in a great flood? etc.
I don't see holy books as good sources of factual information about these types of questions.
What do you see is the purpose of a holy book? In your view, how is it used?
If a person doesn't know what a book is for, or how to use the book, then they aren't going to understand it.
Optimum results for a tool or guide or manual are obtained when a person understands what it is for, and understands how to use it, and uses it in the manner for which it is intended.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 12-06-2017 at 07:08 PM..
What do you see is the purpose of a holy book?
If a person doesn't know what a book is for, or how to use the book, then they aren't going to understand it.
I think a good rule of thumb for starters is: Don't assume it's factual.
That may be the lamest excuse for "wisdom" I have ever seen.
look at 2 millenia of superstition, myth and guesswork and pick what you like? No, I wouldn't recommend it either.
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