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No it's not. If this is true then why is the net energy of the Universe = 0?
Perhaps Sean can help you understand. Energy Is Not Conserved
This only holds true in an isolated system. Get that through your head! Neither the Universe or us are isolated systems.
I never said it did. It's clear that you don't understand the Law of Conservation of Energy in the slightest.
It dissipated as heat in a lower energy form then when it was a flame releasing energy.
You can insert your god hypothesis where science has yet to tread. If that makes you feel better...go knock yourself out with it but stop trying to make it fit the science because you are doing a very bad job of it and totally misrepresenting science at the same time.
You are using a very specific definition of energy that is specific to the "amount of energy "involved in doing work or moving particles or making flames or other materialist views of the cosmos. Einstein's equivalence of mass/energy/momentum reveals that the basic "stuff" of the universe just manifests as one or the other of those equivalent measures depending on the definition of the spacetime system. The basic "stuff" is a unified field, NOT mass or energy or momentum. That means that you are a specific manifestation of the basic "stuff" (unified field) in a specific configuration and you employ other configurations (food and water) to maintain your configuration by transforming those inputs into you. You take other forms of "energy/mass" and transform it into your physical form and your mental outputs. There is no creation or destruction of "energy/mass" involved, just transformation from one form to other forms. When you say the flame "dissipates as heat in a lower energy form then when it was a flame releasing energy" you are acknowledging that transformations take place. But the light energy does not turn into heat (infrared energy). They are separate forms and they have separate fates. The infrared does dissipate as it is absorbed by the environment in known and measurable ways, but the light photons continue until they are reflected and absorbed by something else. We can see stars and galaxies that are millions or billions of light years away because their light continues to exist until it impacts our retina and the impacts are transformed into images of stars and galaxies. Just because our thoughts and feelings are not measurable as light and heat does not mean they do not similarly exist as EM-level phenomena (like light and infrared) and continue to exist within the universe.
You seem to have lost the thread of your own argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post Where do you think the energy that WAS transformed into radiation from the combustible candle went??? Where did it "float off to?"
The argument is for perpetuation of the soul or consciousness after death. Wasn't that it? I bet it was because we have done this before and you are trying it again with a new mark you hope to bamboozle.
While it may be that some particles can be created or destroyed (though I suspect they just return to protomatter or get assembled out of it), in the general way it just gets changed into other forms, as you say.
But that really confounds your own argument, as i understand it (if it is something else, do feel free to correct me). If I make a full English breakfast and Tzaph looks at the beautifully browned pork sausage and says : "Take that away and the plate also and dump them in the bin". The full English may end up slung in the tip where it will eventually (not the plate which will eventually become archaeological strata) reduce to various molecules. Not a single particle of the matter that made it up has been destroyed, nor is any created. But is it still a full English breakfast? Only an idiot or a bamboozler would try to claim that it was.
So the body and mind logically persists after death as undestroyed dissipated matter and indeed energy. And when you think of it, the simple idea of a perpetuation of Matter/energy perpetuation life, consciousness or mind after death shows that it is understood to be material; but to be considered a perpetuation of the body or mind it has to retain a coherent pattern. It does not, so far as we know, and if anyone claims that it does let us see the evidence.
You may recall the analogy (it might have been somebody else arguing it) of the light from the candle -flame continuing into space, long after the flame itself has gone out. As i recall, this argument from analogy turned around bit the proposer in the arse, as not only is the light image a mere photo of a dead thing moving through space, doing nothing and warming and burning nothing, but it dissipates over distance, as we know happens with the stars, as their light - images are a mere feeble wink of the huge suns that sent the light images flying towards us, as these 'images go in all directions, which also undermines the single image of a candle -flame plugging through the void of the afterlife heading for a rendezvous with the Eternal Candlemaker.
In addition to this, who says the deceased body or mind sends out anything analogous to a light image? For all we know, the particles dissipate after death. If it is maintained that any of it holds to a coherent pattern (1) as a sort of spiritual full English breakfast, let us see the evidence for that.
It is the old problem of using an analogy as evidence, and I suspect because it is unthinkingly assumed that it is explaining a true thing in easy to comprehend form. That it is "True" is of course based on Faith in the perpetuation of the mind after death and it doesn't take an Einstein or Hawking to see where THAT Faith -belief came from.
Now as to the dark matter video, it doesn't seem to have been explained in your post, old mate, how this is relevant. I doubt that it is and rather it is attempting to play the 'Unknowns' card - what is a gap for god can also act as a gap for any of the God -supporting apologetics. I could be wrong; if it is not simply an attempt to bamboozle everyone, let's hear what the point actually is.
(1) Gaylen may recall that he thought this idea was not a logical possibility, but I argued that it was as an electrical pattern - and functioning, too, but I did think that it would need to have been formed in a mind first, and continuing independently after death. But as Theists apologists never seem to understand, that a soul, afterlife or God is not logically impossible in this universe, does not do a single darn thing to show that there is one.
I know why they argue that way - They think like this:
(a) God exists. This is a basic assumption (a priori)
(b) Atheists deny this. They claim a god does not exist.
(c) the burden of proof falls on them to prove what they claim.
(d) they produce various arguments to prove that God is not possible.
(e) If they can be made to admit that a god IS logically possible in their universe (not impossible is just as good), their argument is
shot and God is still assumed to exist a priori.
This is, I submit, absolutely the way they think and explains all the apparent absurdities idiocies and dishonesty that we see in Theistic apologetics.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 05-05-2018 at 05:06 AM..
You seem to have lost the thread of your own argument.
I know why they argue that way - They think like this:
(a) God exists. This is a basic assumption (a priori)
(b) Atheists deny this. They claim a god does not exist.
(c) the burden of proof falls on them to prove what they claim.
(d) they produce various arguments to prove that God is not possible.
(e) If they can be made to admit that a god IS logically possible in their universe (not impossible is just as good), their argument is
shot and God is still assumed to exist a priori.
This is, I submit, absolutely the way they think and explains all the apparent absurdities idiocies and dishonesty that we see in Theistic apologetics.
I submit that you do exactly what the fundy theists do. as you told me ...
1) "although valid, my atheism "forces" me to answer like ....."
2) "Although valid, we change words so theists don't use it ...."
3) "semantics", a word play to minimize facts. You change wording to change or cover up facts.
4) "yes, we are marketing a statement of belief over knowledge claims."
some simple examples that you have easily exposed your denominations limits and true intent to subjugate people that don't believe like you do.
1) The very basic claim that "you" are just a volume of the universe doing you. shunned.
2) everything that we make, the universe made.
3) the universe is quantum computing right now.
4) compare the biosphere's interactions to what we classify as life, non-live, and a "tweener", like virus. Keep it simple, use a cell, computer, and aids.
Logic, reason, and commonsense is not standing around throwing eggs at everything science says when it doesn't fit your belief. Logic, commonsense, and reason is not minimizing the science that doesn't support your denominations beliefs.
I found this from a past pastor in your atheist denomination.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo
Well depending on the claim actually being made, there IS no middle ground. For example the claim there is a god. There either is one. Or there is not one. What "middle ground" do you expect or seek there exactly? It really is a true or false statement.
its black/white, this or that, and most dangerously, my way or the highway. Its your way of life and its dangerous to the rest of us.
Last edited by Arach Angle; 05-05-2018 at 07:10 AM..
You are the last person I would ever listen to in attempting to give me advice on how to live my life or how to achieve higher states of consciousness. I am eons beyond you.
You haven't even begun, you aint even in the race and Taphy is in her 7th lap.
You haven't even begun, you aint even in the race and Taphy is in her 7th lap.
LOL why am I not surprised hearing this come from you? On the 7th lap of lowly evolved pathways full of judgment, hatred, bitterness, and hypocrisy? Sounds about right.
You are using a very specific definition of energy that is specific to the "amount of energy "involved in doing work or moving particles or making flames or other materialist views of the cosmos.
I think referring to people as materialists in this day and age is a bit outdated.
A joule also represents the energy dissipated as heat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Einstein's equivalence of mass/energy/momentum reveals that the basic "stuff" of the universe just manifests as one or the other of those equivalent measures depending on the definition of the spacetime system.
Do you realize that Einsteins Unified Field Theory is simply a mathematical statement from Einstein to support his idea of a link between electromagnetism and gravity?
Both electromagnetism and gravity, similar to his E = mc2 equation, which shows energy and mass are one in the same thing...i.e. that anything having mass has an equivalent amount of energy and vice versa. The Unified Field Equations...were designed to show that electromagnetism and gravity as being one and the same.
String Theory is a the most favored model for a Unified Field Theory and Brian Greene explains it nicely.
He also explains Time in a way that makes perfect sense.
The basic "stuff" is a unified field, NOT mass or energy or momentum.
Define basic "stuff"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
That means that you are a specific manifestation of the basic "stuff" (unified field) in a specific configuration and you employ other configurations (food and water) to maintain your configuration by transforming those inputs into you.
I can't respond to this without you defining basic "stuff".
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
When you say the flame "dissipates as heat in a lower energy form then when it was a flame releasing energy" you are acknowledging that transformations take place. But the light energy does not turn into heat (infrared energy). They are separate forms and they have separate fates.
This is obvious but has nothing to do with my point. The point again is that once the chemical reaction stops the flame goes out and no more heat or light energy is generated. This is exactly what happened when any living species dies.
This is exactly the trait of religion and it's followers.
My god exits and if you don't believe it then off with your head!
Not all, only some. and That's what I was pointing out. many in the anti-religious denomination of atheism act exactly like some fundy religious people. You either believe what I believe (yes god or no god)or we will kill, shun, or change the science until you do.
personality disorders are caused by a statement of belief. broken people express broken belief. weather its "my god only or die" or "no god only or die". they are the same danger to liberty and freedom everywhere.
I think referring to people as materialists in this day and age is a bit outdated.
A joule also represents the energy dissipated as heat.
Do you realize that Einsteins Unified Field Theory is simply a mathematical statement from Einstein to support his idea of a link between electromagnetism and gravity?
Both electromagnetism and gravity, similar to his E = mc2 equation, which shows energy and mass are one in the same thing...i.e. that anything having mass has an equivalent amount of energy and vice versa. The Unified Field Equations...were designed to show that electromagnetism and gravity as being one and the same.
String Theory is a the most favored model for a Unified Field Theory and Brian Greene explains it nicely.
He also explains Time in a way that makes perfect sense.
Time is one of the most interesting dimensions and really deepens my insights.
Define basic "stuff"?
I can't respond to this without you defining basic "stuff".
This is obvious but has nothing to do with my point. The point again is that once the chemical reaction stops the flame goes out and no more heat or light energy is generated. This is exactly what happened when any living species dies.
well, I hope you watched "what is space" in that series. that episode in that series seals the deal shut in describing this region of space as "living" as far more valid than "non living". In fact, that whole series seals the deal shut.
also, whats not generated did just 'go away' or "stop". It settled to the lowest energy state in that volume. Particles can be thought as the water "spray" on the surface of a pot of water that is in a rolling boil. The vapor and spray just above the surface is where we are. Lower the temp, the water "falls" back into a ground state we call the liquid. Liquid space isn't a bad analogy, many people use it. You can go cut and past people if ya want to.
When the 2 major religious texts have a god telling it's followers to kill anyone who does not worship it or who worships another god...then yes this is what religion teaches it's followers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle
personality disorders are caused by a statement of belief.
Not exactly accurate. Personality disorders are a result of many things but mostly from the inability to cope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle
broken people express broken belief. weather its "my god only or die" or "no god only or die". they are the same danger to liberty and freedom everywhere.
It's not as black and white as you are making it. People who are broken express in all sorts of ways...some wise, some angry, some shy and timid, some express their beliefs through music or creating art. You have a skewed oversimplified view of things. People are much more complex than your boxed views.
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