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Whatever it is, some people may want to discuss it.
Yes which is why I asked you to please explain how atoms and bonds provide evidence for ID. Instead of explaining it you posted a false quote that was supposedly written by Professor Henry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest
You've made your point...it's all silly nonsense to you.
I don't recall ever making this point. In fact I think ID is a serious twisted lie that people who are not very well versed in science are lead to believe. I don't see that as silly nonsense but a very serious issue.
Yes which is why I asked you to please explain how atoms and bonds provide evidence for ID. Instead of explaining it you posted a false quote that was supposedly written by Professor Henry.
I don't recall ever making this point. In fact I think ID is a serious lie that people who are not very well versed in science are lead to believe. I don't see that as silly nonsense but a very serious issue.
You are welcome to perform some basic research for yourself on the subject and have at it.
I'm not looking to fight about the topic or wade through insults.
I am already well aware of what ID preaches.
Ditto on that!
FYI: ID seems to be off topic for this particular thread...A Non-Magical Alternative in the title leads me to this conclusion.
Matadora you begin this by quoting my post about solids. You've made your point...whatever it is...please have the last word on this religion and spirituality matter, so that we can let it go.
Matadora you begin this by quoting my post about solids.
Well I actually responded to this quote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest
Is there any debate as to whether or not nothing is solid & everything is energy?
It would be nice if we could actually address this here but since there is nothing religious or spiritual about your question...maybe you can start a thread on this topic in the science forum?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest
You've made your point...whatever it is...
You're telling me I've made my point but then tack on "whatever it is". Does not sound like you understand any point I've tried to make.
you posting stuff that is completely off base is the reason they need to stop science talk.
Personally, I don't think her science talk is inaccurate or off-base. Her metaphysics might have a stronger materialist flavor than I'm comfortable with, but that is exactly the sort of differences we are here to discuss.
BTW: As I've mentioned elsewhere, I think it is unfortunate that science talk is restricted just because this is a spirituality forum. I can see why it would be banned in many of the threads within the forum insofar as science would be off-topic for those threads, but a spirituality forum, in general, ought to have some threads wherein science is fully on-topic (because you're not really allowed to talk much about spiritual implications in the science forums). I'd say that atheism is a legitimate spiritual path, and a key aspect of atheism is rejecting theism on the basis of scientific theories. This thread, in particular, is about finding a non-magical theism that is not too wildly incompatible with Christianity. This focus on "non-magical" puts science (aka "naturalistic philosophy") squarely in the limelight.
Basically, there ought to be some threads in a spirituality forum were atheist spirituality - which tends to be science-centered and metaphysically materialistic - can play a major role and, it seems to me that the this ought to be one of those threads. Overall I appreciate that the mods have been pretty tolerant of science in this thread but, if I were them, I'd be tempted to let this thread (and a few similar threads in this forum) be "open carry" zones where atheists can strut around with all the scientist/materialist weapons they like. The only restriction, I'd say, is that that we need to keep showing how these scientific concepts positively relate to spirituality. In other words, don't just tear down theist spirituality, but show us what spiritual implications atheism can bring to the table.
.... I'd say that atheism is a legitimate spiritual path, and a key aspect of atheism is rejecting theism on the basis of scientific theories. This thread, in particular, is about finding a non-magical theism that is not too wildly incompatible with Christianity. This focus on "non-magical" puts science (aka "naturalistic philosophy") squarely in the limelight.
Basically, there ought to be some threads in a spirituality forum were atheist spirituality - which tends to be science-centered and metaphysically materialistic - can play a major role and, it seems to me that the this ought to be one of those threads. Overall I appreciate that the mods have been pretty tolerant of science in this thread but, if I were them, I'd be tempted to let this thread (and a few similar threads in this forum) be "open carry" zones where atheists can strut around with all the scientist/materialist weapons they like. The only restriction, I'd say, is that that we need to keep showing how these scientific concepts positively relate to spirituality. In other words, don't just tear down theist spirituality, but show us what spiritual implications atheism can bring to the table.
atheism brings no "spiritual implications" to the table because they deny and reject spirit soul, and the non-physical realm. it's that simple.
atheism rejects that which is sacred and holy.
atheism rejects the existence and reality of humans having a component of non-material spirit or soul
atheism denies and rejects the realm and components which religion and spirituality address and explore.
therefore atheism does not have anything to contribute to "religion and spirituality"
what they are left with is science and philosophy and psychology. that is the corner they have painted themselves into which they choose to inhabit. this by their own choosing leaves them out of the conversation and rich discussion of what they deny and reject:
There is no atheist spirituality because atheists deny and reject the existence of spirit, soul, non physical reality. Atheism rejects theism, rejects Divinity, rejects God, rejects gods, rejects Creator, rejects soul, rejects spirit, rejects that which is the non-physical component of reality.
what atheists are left with as far as their contributions is exactly what you state as "tearing down theist spirituality" which is what we see consistently, a chest beating boasting and moronic condescension, a tiresome array of immature insults, a pedantic anti-religion drone of monotony. This is the religion and spirituality forum, remember, this is where we actually get to discuss religion and spirituality.
[and no we're not talking about "spirit" as in "school spirit!" or "spirit of enthusiasm!" or "spirited lively discussion!" we are talking about spirit as in soul, the non-physical portion of a person, the non-physical essence and life force back of all reality]
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 10-14-2018 at 10:51 AM..
Personally, I don't think her science talk is inaccurate or off-base. Her metaphysics might have a stronger materialist flavor than I'm comfortable with, but that is exactly the sort of differences we are here to discuss.
BTW: As I've mentioned elsewhere, I think it is unfortunate that science talk is restricted just because this is a spirituality forum. I can see why it would be banned in many of the threads within the forum insofar as science would be off-topic for those threads, but a spirituality forum, in general, ought to have some threads wherein science is fully on-topic (because you're not really allowed to talk much about spiritual implications in the science forums). I'd say that atheism is a legitimate spiritual path, and a key aspect of atheism is rejecting theism on the basis of scientific theories. This thread, in particular, is about finding a non-magical theism that is not too wildly incompatible with Christianity. This focus on "non-magical" puts science (aka "naturalistic philosophy") squarely in the limelight.
Basically, there ought to be some threads in a spirituality forum were atheist spirituality - which tends to be science-centered and metaphysically materialistic - can play a major role and, it seems to me that the this ought to be one of those threads. Overall I appreciate that the mods have been pretty tolerant of science in this thread but, if I were them, I'd be tempted to let this thread (and a few similar threads in this forum) be "open carry" zones where atheists can strut around with all the scientist/materialist weapons they like. [B]The only restriction, I'd say, is that that we need to keep showing how these scientific concepts positively relate to spirituality. In other words, don't just tear down theist spirituality, but show us what spiritual implications atheism can bring to the table.
[/b]
I said that myself numerous times gray. I do not agree with denying everything because theists can use it against us. Its dishonest and deceitful. i say teach them the science and how it relates to what they feel.
i think the "deny everything because it makes atheism harder to sell" is a major hurdle. its as big a threat to rational thinking as any fundy-mental think types I know.
i think understanding our true place in the system around us offers all the spirituality most people need. It fits the more logical of us and the more emotional of us. The standard model can offer people "loved" without some guy dying and flying away.
your qualia and my biosphere as life in no way suggest a god thing. Why do you suppose some sects of atheism fear such simple notions so much?
atheism brings no "spiritual implications" to the table because they deny and reject spirit soul, and the non-physical realm. it's that simple.
atheism rejects that which is sacred and holy.
atheism rejects the existence and reality of humans having a component of non-material spirit or soul
atheism denies and rejects the realm and components which religion and spirituality address and explore.
therefore atheism does not have anything to contribute to "religion and spirituality"
what they are left with is science and philosophy and psychology. that is the corner, the limited realm, they have painted themselves into which they choose to inhabit. this by their own choosing leaves them out of the conversation and rich discussion of what they deny and reject:
There is no atheist spirituality because atheists deny and reject the existence of spirit, soul, non physical reality. Atheism rejects theism, rejects Divinity, rejects God, rejects gods, rejects Creator, rejects soul, rejects spirit, rejects that which is the non-physical component of reality.
what atheists are left with as far as their contributions is exactly what you state as "tearing down theist spirituality" which is what we see consistently, a chest beating condescension, a tiresome array of crude insults, an anti-religion monotonous drone. This is the religion and spirituality forum, remember, this is where we actually get to discuss religion and spirituality.
some atheist tzap.
the standard model offers us our true place in the system around us. That is magical for many people. i myself find it fascinating that the universe self-organized and is doing humans.
all the data suggest we are part of a larger more complex system. If we are classified as 'alive" then how would we classify the more complex system we are part of?
I think that offers you all you need while at the same time offering me the logic that holds "no omni-dude" needed.
I find that spirituality amazing, I am in awe.
wee on the deny everything types, they are as dangerous as the fundamental theist in your ranks.
Correct! Nothing I posted about science is inaccurate.
It's glaringly obvious to me who is not scientifically literate in these forums.
When I've discussed science I am referring to what occurs here on earth. Not in the Large Hadron Collider, or a Black Hole or inside a Star. This is why Newton's gravity is only works in certain situations. Situations here on earth under normal earth conditions it works.
Instead of discussing it as I don't want to appear to be ignoring the mods request I will instead post a link.
My apologies in advance Mensa/MighyQ if posting a link goes against the rules. Please edit it out if it does.
lmao, the stuff you cut and past is right. the stuff you say yourself is wrong. you don't even understand that what you link us to supports what i said and shows your stance incomplete at best.
keep it yup
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