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No, you do not worship rock. You miss the point. When you know that god is in everything, everything becomes god. then it is very easy to worship any part of existence as then god is worshiped. You misunderstand the meaning of worship.
Worshiping something is not saying rock is god. You are worshiping god through a rock. just as an example.
It is the intention, the direction of worship that has meaning, not the object through which worship is done. It is an upai, a device. Nothing else. You want to talk to your friend and you call him and you pleasant enjoyable time over the phone. It does not mean you have a pleasant enjoyable time with a phone, right? Phone is simply a device to connect you and your friend.
I care less what a religion does. Religion is perverted science and science is perverted religion. ANYTHING can become spiritual - or not - based on intentions, aim of thinking. Whatever leads you to physical, bonds to physical - is not spiritual. Whatever leads to your progression, development, enlightenment - is spiritual.
Look at Gurdjiev. He used "work" method. Very hard physical labor, literally beating his disciples into heavy labor exhaustion. He didn't even know what meditation was. But they progressed. How "spiritual" is non stop digging and filling back same trench for 3 days and nights, without any rest, food or drink? But Bennett progressed through that.
I need to add something. True worship is bonding with. Just like true love. Becoming one. One with. Commune. What is medium between Subject of worship and object of worship is irrelevant. Just like wire is not electric current.
Now, I am not saying there are not those who do worship the rock itself. Or a tree or whatever. But that is completely different story.
No, you do not worship rock. You miss the point. When you know that god is in everything, everything becomes god. then it is very easy to worship any part of existence as then god is worshiped. You misunderstand the meaning of worship.
Worshiping something is not saying rock is god. You are worshiping god through a rock. just as an example.
It is the intention, the direction of worship that has meaning, not the object through which worship is done. It is an upai, a device. Nothing else. You want to talk to your friend and you call him and you pleasant enjoyable time over the phone. It does not mean you have a pleasant enjoyable time with a phone, right? Phone is simply a device to connect you and your friend.
I care less what a religion does. Religion is perverted science and science is perverted religion. ANYTHING can become spiritual - or not - based on intentions, aim of thinking. Whatever leads you to physical, bonds to physical - is not spiritual. Whatever leads to your progression, development, enlightenment - is spiritual.
Look at Gurdjiev. He used "work" method. Very hard physical labor, literally beating his disciples into heavy labor exhaustion. He didn't even know what meditation was. But they progressed. How "spiritual" is non stop digging and filling back same trench for 3 days and nights, without any rest, food or drink? But Bennett progressed through that.
I get the point that one is not worshipping the rock, but worshipping the reality through the rock - as one might worship it through any object. Religious rites and customs then become just an aid to worship, and the way it is done is not Right or Wrong (1). Differences and denominations become totally irrelevant. Heresy becomes absurd, holy wars an abomination and missionary work of no value apart from charitable aid.
The atheist would probably be fine with that, but would simply question the nature and purpose of worship. Something that the all-that-Is entity wants or needs? Just something ha we need? Or 'bonding' as you say We would still have o question whether this bonding is anything other than a feeling in the head or is achieving something or more use than getting he warm fuzzies. But that's a whole other discussion.
(1) unless, as you say, one is ascribing divine power to the rock and forgetting about everything else. But even then, it could be seen as coming to the same thing.
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The atheist would probably be fine with that, but would simply question the nature and purpose of worship. Something that the all-that-Is entity wants or needs? Just something ha we need? .....
Yeah, I never quite got why Heidegger would say that we should nurture an attitude of thanks. But, hey, I don't et a LOT about Heidegger.
Yeah, I never quite got why Heidegger would say that we should nurture an attitude of thanks. But, hey, I don't et a LOT about Heidegger.
I certainly can relate to that idea as I see his life as a big lottery win, which is why it is a shame to toss it in he bin or let it rot in expectation of a much bigger one in a next life.
There's also the self -training is being positive, rather than grumbling about everything. The latter can damage you mentally and in social effectiveness.
One more sermon and then, alas, I must relinquish the pulpit and return to my legal work.
An immature spirituality can to some extent be identified by the True Believer’s insistence he is right and you are wrong. (At the other extreme, we have those who spirituality is in the vein of “Whatever you want to believe, dude; whatever is true for you works for me as long as you stay out of my face.” At some ultimate level, however, there is Truth. If your spirituality is 180 degrees off-base, it is simply Wrong.)
While I am a mainstream Christian, there are two prongs to my belief system that keep me out of the True Believer camp. First, I acknowledge that my understanding of Christian doctrine is surely and inevitably flawed.
I grasp what a human is capable of grasping about the transcendent, eternal and divine. If 50% of what I now understand proves to be the Truth, I’ll be delighted; if 75%, I’ll be astounded.
As a point of clarification, when you refer to Christianity Lite, what percentage of what you are grasping and understanding is missing in the Lite version given your FULL version is somewhere between 50% and 75% to begin with????
Quote:
I thus describe Christianity as the “template” for my spirituality. Of the available templates I've studied (including, of course, atheism), Christianity meshes the best with my experiences, observations, studies, reflection and intuition. I thus live my life as though my understanding were basically correct.
What part of your experiences, observations, studies, reflection, and intuition comports with the primitive idea of blood sacrificing innocents as scapegoats to appease a wrathful God????
Quote:
Which brings me to the second prong: While I have a level of conviction Christianity is true, I acknowledge it might not be. Perhaps my understanding is 0% correct. Perhaps atheism is true, or Buddhism, or Hinduism, or some other ism no one has yet stumbled upon. This is at least a possibility.
The reason all Christian forums, as well as forums with broader names like Religion and Spirituality, descend into name-calling and ridicule is that many posters - often the most active - fail to acknowledge they are talking about mere templates and not Truth.
Partly this is due to psychological factors. Part of convincing myself I am right is convincing myself you are wrong. At some level, I know I cannot possibly have the certainty I pretend to have and fear I might not be right. This is as true for fundamentalist atheists as for fundamentalist Muslims or any other species of True Believer.
Some of it is more well-intentioned. True Believers see proselytizing as a key part of their mission. Attempting to convince you they are right is doing you a big favor. With Christians and Muslims, this is obvious. Atheists do their proselytizing for exactly the same reason; some day (they believe) you will thank them and society will be better off if they can dissuade you from your magical thinking.
The danger of accepting that your belief system is nothing more than a template is that it is easy to fall into the trap of thinking, “Since we all have mere templates, tolerance for others’ templates is true spirituality.”
Well, not exactly. The objective of a spiritual quest, I believe, is to get as close to the Truth as you can in this lifetime, for reasons that are important in the context of this life and very possibly in the context of eternity. If you reach a level of strong conviction, this conviction must carry with it a conviction the other possibilities are farther from the Truth. I think it is entirely appropriate – and for Christians mandatory – to share this in a way that takes into account the two prongs I’ve discussed and that avoids slipping into a True Believer harangue.
Some may note that I’ve been rather dismissive – even haranguing, if that’s a word – of what I call Christianity Lite. My dismissiveness has nothing to do with the Lite beliefs, which are as appealing at the human level as most New Age theologies. My objection is to deceptively attaching the label Christian to something that is manifestly not Christianity. I’d expect a similar harangue from a Muslim if I were to parade my Christian beliefs as “the real Islam, what Muhammad was really talking about.”
I would ask you to identify the essential elements of Christianity that the Lite versions leave out since they ALL follow Christ.
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(1) Those invaluable discussions with Eusebius on Abiogenesis flagged up the problem or disconnect. That plausible explanations for abiogenesis existed meant that a natural explanation was not impossible. Thus the Unknown/unproven was no evidence for a god. Eusebius saw it differently - God dunnit until ....
So you were conversing with the fake Eusebius all along knowing he was an atheist pretending? Which makes you complicit. No wonder you won't speak out against it.
And you're still doing it by quoting the posts.
So no one can trust or believe anything you say anymore, Do you not see the problem with that?
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